Rethinking things.......

drbassman · June 26, 2014, 06:16:46 AM

Being the capricious gear whore that I am, I know I am prone to switch at a moment's notice on things. I have however come to some conclusions about amps. There are so many variables, one cannot control for all possible contingencies. One just tries to adapt.

My current dilemma, my Mesa Prodigy is a great amp, but I can't get it to perform the way I want it to. Many folks probably can I'm sure, but after months of trying, I can't seem to dial it in to meet the demands of the tone my brain seeks out and situation I play in routinely. Part of the problem is the crappy acoustics of our club. The other is the nature of this all tube amp. I want deep rich lows, but get a delayed, indistinct boomy output when I try to dial that in. When I go for cleaner, less boomy, the bass end leaves me wanting more.

My Hofner Club sounds like total crap through the amp no matter how I set things up. In fact, all of my hollow bodies suck through this rig. It could also be the speakers in combination with this amp, although they sound great with other amps.

So, I borrow an Orange Terror 1000 from the shop to try out and wow, I was amazed. Deep rich lows, no boominess, sharp quick attack, the gain control warmed it up nicely, the speakers were cranking out a distinct warm bass that sounded great in our mix and hit that undefinable sweet spot in my twisted 60's brain. Man I was bummed and pleased at the same time. The sound was very close to my little B-15 rig.

So, it's gonna be solid state with a tube preamp for awhile. I am gonna take my B-15 and the Marshall Super Bass in as well to do some comparisons. I'll bore you all with my thoughts on that over the next couple weeks!

Happy Face · June 26, 2014, 08:53:54 AM

It's all so subjective.

My own experience - I tried about everything. An SVT is great, but a bit rough on portability.

I stumbled into Orange gear. First with an AD200 and later a handwired version. Paired with two Orange 1x15" cabs. A modular rig so even I can heft it around. Added a Bass Terror 500 as backup and small show rig. Paired it with one of those Orange isobaric 2x12" cabs. It's portable but the little cab has not won we over compared to the 15" cabs.

I play in a cover band that only plays music from 1966 to 1974. The Orange amps nail it. Rich.
Especially with my Guilds. On the other hand, if I was playing more modern music with my Rickenbacker, I'd haul out my Trace Eliot head.

slinkp · June 26, 2014, 08:55:05 AM

Hmm... What cabinets are you using?

Did you use the same cabs with the Orange Terror?

Happy Face · June 26, 2014, 10:11:31 AM

Quote from: slinkp on June 26, 2014, 08:55:05 AM
Hmm... What cabinets are you using?

Did you use the same cabs with the Orange Terror?

I've used the Terror head with the two 1x15" cabs and it sounds fine to me, though our front man prefers the AD200 head, saying it has more oompf. I've only tried the isobaric 2x12" with the Terror and Trace heads.

slinkp · June 26, 2014, 12:41:00 PM

I meant Dr. B since he asked the original question.... was curious what cabs were used with the problematic Mesa.

drbassman · June 26, 2014, 02:01:28 PM

Quote from: slinkp on June 26, 2014, 12:41:00 PM
I meant Dr. B since he asked the original question.... was curious what cabs were used with the problematic Mesa.

2 Mesa Scout 15" with passive radiators. I love them with every amp, but looks like maybe they aren't a good pairing with the Prodigy.

And yes, it all so subjective!

Psycho Bass Guy · June 27, 2014, 12:51:58 AM

Mesa uses a modified Fender tone stack that coupled with a very slushy supply doesn't make for a satisfying, tight low end. It's part of the inherent tone of the amp and no preamp, eq or cabinet will change it. Mesa is very much a guitar amp company making bass amps and their tube bass amps carry that philosophy forward. Their tube bass amps have no punch. There is low end, but it's woofy and uncontrolled. The closest you could get to making one punch like an SVT would be to use a sealed cab with a high low end rolloff and even then, the low end will feel "slow."

drbassman · June 27, 2014, 04:45:27 AM

Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on June 27, 2014, 12:51:58 AM
Mesa uses a modified Fender tone stack that coupled with a very slushy supply doesn't make for a satisfying, tight low end. It's part of the inherent tone of the amp and no preamp, eq or cabinet will change it. Mesa is very much a guitar amp company making bass amps and their tube bass amps carry that philosophy forward. Their tube bass amps have no punch. There is low end, but it's woofy and uncontrolled. The closest you could get to making one punch like an SVT would be to use a sealed cab with a high low end rolloff and even then, the low end will feel "slow."

Well, you nailed it. By itself it sounds good but in a band situation with a not so perfect room it woofed way too much. That little Orange amp is great in my club with my Mesa Scout speakers. I love those cabs. I think in a more open venue the Mesa would do better, but I only play one club so I need it to work there. Experience is a great teacher!

Pilgrim · June 27, 2014, 07:41:02 AM

Solid state with tube preamp can be a really nice combination. That's a feature I enjoy in the Genz Shuttle.

slinkp · June 27, 2014, 01:43:58 PM

Yeah "sounds good by itself" often doesn't quite hold up on the gig...

I tend to assume that acoustics will suck and the tighter I can get the low end, the better. That's why I ended up loving my EA cabs so much. The low end on those things is ridiculous - not in terms of volume (although I can get as loud as I would ever want), but in terms of smoothness and depth. The room will do what it does, but at least I'm not sending mush out into it.

patman · June 30, 2014, 07:18:01 AM

I played a multi band show on Sunday...it was a Mesa head and a 4 x 12 (I think) Aguilar cab...

PBG's assessment of the Mesa was absolutely spot on.

godofthunder · July 03, 2014, 08:44:10 AM

I love my TB500 fantastic amp! Has the Marshall arrived yet?

??

Happy Face · July 03, 2014, 09:07:48 PM

GOT - The TB500s early editions had some reliability issues. Apparently only on some low serial numbers. (Check n the official Orange amp group). I happen to have one of those and hv never had an issue, but I use it mostly as a backup. No harm done in checking it out.

Beyond that, those Orange amps kick butt.

Since I know you've been a player on big stages, you'll appreciate my dilemma. We're playing a pretty mega outdoor show on Saturday in a park ahead of the fireworks. I'll prolly use my 200 watt Orange head with the two stock 1x15" cabs and let the PA handle the bass.

But I own the PA too and I gotta add a second subwoofer, prolly another bass cab of mine. Psycho might like my old Sunn 4x12" sealed cab with JBL MI-12s. But I wonder if I shd just stick my Orange 2x12" isobaric cab up there. Its supposedly rated at 600 watts and has a folded horn design.

godofthunder · July 04, 2014, 04:50:08 AM

LOL mine fried on the launch pad. Orange was great fixed it for free paid shipping both ways.

drbassman · July 04, 2014, 09:34:17 AM

Got the marshall and plugged it in. It really is 100 watts and more. I'm really busy this coming week and won't be able to use it at practice with the 15" Mesa cabs the week after. I'll update then!