Switching string brands - flatwound advice needed

Pilgrim · May 29, 2014, 09:21:13 AM

Quote from: the mojo hobo on May 29, 2014, 08:40:45 AM
The La Bella 760M 1954 Original strings are big and stiff but sound great. (on a P bass anyway)

You're right on both counts. (1) They sound great, and (2) they are so freakin' stiff that I only left mine on a bass for a couple of weeks.

Granny Gremlin · May 29, 2014, 09:39:56 AM

Any of you try those La Bellas on a shorty? Just wondering if the tension/stiffness is alleviated by the shorter scale length at all.

4stringer77 · May 29, 2014, 11:31:15 AM

I had the La Bella FL set on my EB3 before I switched back to chromes. They were very easy to play and bend, I took them off because I thought the E sounded dead. I'm starting to get tired of the chromes on the EB3 now though because the bridge pickup sounds more honky than the LaBs which were much more punchy. I might try the La Bellas again or maybe ghs precision flats. I think even the FM gauge La Bellas would be fine tension wise.

Granny Gremlin · May 29, 2014, 01:35:30 PM

Thanks.

4stringer77 · May 29, 2014, 03:37:05 PM

No sweat. I was thinking about GHS because I think Dave mentioned either he or a friend like them. I see that the precision flats are only offered in a somewhat lighter gauge than I would normally use on a short scale. Brite flats come in a nice .049 to .108 gauge. I might try those, smooth enough to baby those old frets but with a little more edge than just a pure flat.

Aussie Mark · May 29, 2014, 05:16:54 PM

Quote from: the mojo hobo on May 29, 2014, 08:28:40 AM
Are you sure about that? I have used both and remember them seeming to sound/feel/look different. Also Ernie Ball sells a 55-110 set that D'Addario doesn't.

They sound/feel/look identical to me - I've been using them both for around 15 years now. As for the 55-110 set, I haven't tried that set, so that might be a special gauge that Ernie Ball order from their string manufacturer (Ernie Ball don't make their own flats)

Granny Gremlin · January 20, 2015, 12:11:34 PM

So... the plot thickens. But first, thanks to Chromium for the string swap.

Anyway, turns out Roto flats are actually pretty high tension. I decided to try those on the EB3 (the TIs I had been using are a waste of money there), because it needed a setup (startring to buzz a bit). Then that rubber band neck showed me just how high tension th Rotos are; yeowzers. Anyway, string buzz got worse, tried everything, including raising the action to completely unplayable height; still buzzing (now worse and on both sides of the fretting hand). Took the strings off and tried to check the frets but I don't have a good enough straight edge. Anyway, long story short, I had to take it in for a refret (original frets on a 65; about time I suppose). The guy started checking the frets and looked puzzled for a bit until I explained that I don't play in 1st position much, mostly up higher just in front of the 12th fret - that was good for a LOL, but means that it has to be a full refret not a partial or a dressing.

I decided to try Pyramids on the Tirumph, I bought long scale because I always have (I have 2 of each scale, cut em short for shorties) and because it's a 105 E vs 100 on the shortie set. This may have been a bad idea, all strings mounted fine but the E went all:

I'm getting a replacement from the store for free (good because they aint cheap), but I do need an opinion tiebreaker:

Store says that this shouldn't have happened despite the actual windings being on the post (due to long scale vs short). They're hand not machine made so duds happen/not as consistant. That would be my inclination too. Looks like the core stretched or was bunched up under the windings.... but they are round core vs the usual hex core so winding slippage is more likely (so they say).

Luthier (trying a new guy; don't know him) says that yes, this can happen with round core strings and I should use a shortie string so that the actual wrap windings don't start until after the tuning post.

What say youze? I just don't want to have to go exchange again; gotta set this girl set up to record (I will be doing some songs with the EB3 too, but not til the overdub stage - luthier dude said he could turn it around in a week, which is amazing to me).

One thing I will say about the Pyramids is (despite the hand-made inconsistency element almost scaring me off) they feel amazing. Tension is nice - not as floppy as the TIs but on the lower end. More supple and smoother than anything I have ever tried - even the TI's, which actually feel rough in comparison (I have an old used TI E on there now with the rest of the Pyramid set so I can jam on Wednesday). I really want to like these, they feel so nice on the hand (but also leave stains; looks like lead streaks - I hope that is just because they're fresh, but they probably use a purer nickel than anyone else, which is a softish metal). Rotos don't feel half as luxurious, downright spartan in comparison. TIs are a not-even-close second. I'll see how they sound tomorrow night - I hear that until they break in, the E and A sound dull and the D/G sound too bright, so one should be patient and wait till they even themselves out. Acoustically at home, this appears to be true.

As for those Rotos, will probably try them on the EB3 after the refret. If I can't get the action right due to the tension, I'll throw on the used TIs I just took off my Triumph and try the Rotos on the RD Artist - if that maple neck can't take em nothing can.

Dave W · January 20, 2015, 04:20:14 PM

Round core strings are usually locked to the core near both ends of the wound section. From your photo it looks like winding part of the wound portion around the post caused it to unlock. It doesn't always happen, I've done it a couple of times without incident, but it's always a possibility.

Granny Gremlin · January 21, 2015, 07:47:25 AM

Thanks Dave. I suppose I should take'r easier when I mount; usually I keep it pretty taut with one hand as I wind it onto the post with the other. That means it won't hold a tune for a damn for the first week, but so be it.

Pilgrim · January 21, 2015, 09:17:01 AM

Safer to buy the scale matched to the instrument. The only time I have ever broken a string it was done by winding the core of a longer scale string around a tuning post. I should also say that I bought them from the gent who's on TB and he sent me a replacement - which he did NOT have to do. Very kind of him.

Granny Gremlin · January 21, 2015, 09:56:07 AM

Yeah, the dude at the store just sent me another long scale E and said if it breaks again he'd send the shorty.

uwe · January 21, 2015, 04:05:54 PM

On a short scale the La Bellas are nothing short of floppy, very comfortable to play. Jake, if your heart depends on it, send me an email with your address and I'll send you a pack of short scale Pyramids, flat or round at your choice, I gotta bunch.

You'll have to answer me a riddle though: Who were the the bass player and the drummer of Deep Purple Mk. 2 again? Practice makes perfect! Even punks.

Granny Gremlin · January 21, 2015, 04:56:22 PM

Thanks, very kind of you, but I'm covered by the store; good dudes. I am still trying out the Pyramids out (tho I love the geetar set on my archtop acoustic) so we'll see if I even take to them (jammin on 3 of 4 of the set for the first time tonight). ... also I don't even wanna look up that trivia for fear of it displacing some actually important knowledge in this haggard brain.

uwe · January 21, 2015, 05:36:23 PM

Alas!, such renitence!

Psycho Bass Guy · January 22, 2015, 04:05:48 AM

Quote from: the mojo hobo on May 29, 2014, 08:28:40 AM
Are you sure about that? I have used both and remember them seeming to sound/feel/look different. Also Ernie Ball sells a 55-110 set that D'Addario doesn't.

I know I'm a little late with this, but Ernie Ball has three different gauges of flatwounds: Group I, Group II, and Group III; don't remember the individual string gauge breakdowns because I rarely change strings, but IIRC, the higher the number, the larger the overall gauges. I've never used D'Addario Chromes, but I have several basses strung with EB flats and the midrange brashness goes away once they're broken in, though they always have a snarl that you would not expect from flats. They do a very good job of making Fender style basses sound more 'Gibsonish.' They're what I have on my Epi LP Standard with the Fralin TB pickups, and I have to say that combination actually sounds very TB'ish with a bigger bottom. Even with the tone knob rolled all the way back, where I keep it mostly, there is a wonderful snarl without honk. My only short scale is an SX 3/4 Jazz clone, but it sounds so good with the dead roundwounds that came on it, I've never changed them. I've always been curious about Pyramids because I love McCartney's sound, but having played a few violin basses, including an old Hofner, and IMO, it's more the bass than the strings and the price is too much for me.