Who didn't see this coming? Kiss RRHOF conflict

Lightyear · February 23, 2014, 04:49:22 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/02/23/dispute-over-lineup-scuttles-plans-for-kiss-to-perform-at-rock-roll-hall-fame/?intcmp=features

Can't say that I'm surpised

Nocturnal · February 23, 2014, 07:15:13 PM

Not surprised at all.

OldManC · February 23, 2014, 10:41:29 PM

As a card carrying KISS nerd from circa 1975, I can't say I'm surprised either. I'd have loved to see the original lineup but I'd also have been happy with something similar to their Unplugged performance, where everyone was playing at one point. If it were my show to plan, I'd have had them play sans make-up, literally focusing on the rock band side, and had them switch it up between all living current and former members.

nofi · February 24, 2014, 07:51:44 AM

it would be tough getting eric carr to play again.

gearHed289 · February 24, 2014, 09:18:19 AM

Or Mark St. John...

Not surprised. Actually not much involving Gene Simmons could surprise me. I too thought an unplugged kind of scenario would be cool. An "everybody" jam, and then the original 4 in full costume/stage show. But... Whatever! I'm sure not gonna lose any sleep over it.

lowend1 · February 24, 2014, 10:24:20 AM

I think you're going to see this kind of stuff more and more as the bands that have been passed over get older and grumpier. It would be nice to see a band tell the RRHOF to go s**t in their collective hats, though. Whenever somebody is inducted, they always seem to knuckle under and say what an honor it is. T

Moving along, I agree with George - there is no reason to put on the make up an' blow up stuff this time around. If you didn't "get" them in the 70s because you were too cool for the room, seeing Paul's (old) man-boobs jiggle across the stage at sixty-something ain't gonna change your mind. OTOH, if you thought their music had no merit, a few well-played songs sans the bombast might make you re-evaluate them to some degree. They did write some great rock n roll.

The lineup? It's all about the original 4 - nobody really gives a crap about the other guys, especially the doppelgangers.

uwe · February 24, 2014, 11:23:08 AM

There's probably Paul's and Gene's truth, Ace's and Peter's truth and the real truth. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter asked for a king's ransom to move his butt to the RRHOF.

Nobody should go, except Vinnie. He could play some, uhum, licks.

Seriously, they should have gone with the new line up, which is their working line up, and invited everyone who played with them as special guests (including Vinnie, his songwriting prowess resurrected their butts in the early eighties, without his kick-start they wouldn't have survived the make up-less years), kind of like The Eagles did when they took Leadon and Meisner on board for their RRHOF performance, I have no recollection of Meisner demanding Schmit off the stage, who had at that point only one Eagles album under his belt compared to Meisner's five, or that Leadon wanted to oust Walsh from the ceremony, who had only played on two Eagles albums as opposed to Leadon's four. Peter and Ace probably demanded that it be only them.

That said, I don't think that to the average Kiss concert goer Ace's and Peter's non-presence matters more than Ringo's and George's would if John Lennon and Paul McCartney did a tour together. Kiss is about projected image not individuality, though no one can play as lovely out of time as Ace.

Dave W · February 24, 2014, 02:04:29 PM

Gene and Paul own the band, right? Then they ought to have decided one way or another, and the rest should have shut up and gone along with it

lowend1 · February 24, 2014, 03:35:51 PM

Quote from: Dave W on February 24, 2014, 02:04:29 PM
Gene and Paul own the band, right? Then they ought to have decided one way or another, and the rest should have shut up and gone along with it

Technically, yes - but Ace and Peter were always the most popular members among the fans. Keep in mind also that the song that made the band superstars was "Beth" - written by Peter, and "New York Groove", while not an Ace composition, was the only hit off the four solo albums. No matter how you look at it, this thing (as shallow as the RRHOF is) transcends who owns the band, who was in the band longest, or whatever. It is ultimately about "Will the real Kiss please stand up". General consensus among fans seems to be that the original Kiss is the real Kiss. If they recorded or played a note after Ace and Peter left, they would still be revered (or reviled) for what they did in the 1970s.

Dave W · February 24, 2014, 11:20:58 PM

Quote from: lowend1 on February 24, 2014, 03:35:51 PM
Technically, yes - but Ace and Peter were always the most popular members among the fans. Keep in mind also that the song that made the band superstars was "Beth" - written by Peter, and "New York Groove", while not an Ace composition, was the only hit off the four solo albums. No matter how you look at it, this thing (as shallow as the RRHOF is) transcends who owns the band, who was in the band longest, or whatever. It is ultimately about "Will the real Kiss please stand up". General consensus among fans seems to be that the original Kiss is the real Kiss. If they recorded or played a note after Ace and Peter left, they would still be revered (or reviled) for what they did in the 1970s.

From what little I know of the band's history, I agree with you that the original lineup is the real Kiss. But when you no longer have a say in the band (or maybe never did), then you say your piece and be done with it. If you're going to cause enough hard feelings that the band won't perform at all, then IMHO you've gone too far.

Lightyear · February 25, 2014, 07:38:17 PM

Nostalgia aside they're probably doing everyone a favor by not playing. I recently watched part of Kiss concert on Palladia from maybe last year - it was just plain painful to watch. Paul's man boobs and shot to hell voice. Gene can still sing but he's really just a plus sized parody of himself. Know when to say when guys.....

Blackbird · February 26, 2014, 08:47:28 AM

I think Peter is the most delusional of all the members. I've read all the books, and yah you have to take them with a grain of salt, but his was annoying to read. I think he was the least important member of the band, contrary to his thoughts on it all.

Take a listen on youtube for Peter Criss' "One for All" songs...an album he completely funded on his own...all I can say is "Yikes". He was shocked it didn't sell in 2007 era of music...and this is the stuff he was trying to get KISS to play. No surprise he didn't get much in the writing category.

gearHed289 · February 26, 2014, 09:09:41 AM

Quote from: Lightyear on February 25, 2014, 07:38:17 PMPaul's man boobs and shot to hell voice. Gene can still sing but he's really just a plus sized parody of himself. Know when to say when guys.....

I have to agree with you. I said "so long!" in 2001. I WOULD go see them one more time with my kid, just so she could say she saw a full-on KISS show (imposters or not).

Nocturnal · February 26, 2014, 12:03:15 PM

I took my daughter to see the first reunion tour with the original band/makeup back in 97 or 98. It was a lot of fun and she loved it (she was 5 at the time). My daughter was not the youngest child in the area where we sat. There were kids that looked about 2-3 in the crowd as well. I don't feel the need to see them again.

66Atlas · February 27, 2014, 07:13:05 AM

In terms of ANY artist....The only RRHOF (or any one-off award show) performances that I get really interested in seeing are the ones where they do something completely different. By that I mean guest performers, unplugged, re-worked song versions, medleys, whatever. I guess if I want to see a groups standard stage show/lineup I'll just get tickets the next time they come through town and see their show in it's entirety.

In terms of Kiss...I really wouldn't be interested in seeing the original or the current lineup. I guess both are just sort of played-out for me. It would have been cool to see them bring back everyone though. I'd love to see Kulick, Vincent and Frehley trade solo's anyway