KISS collaboration

[Pilgrim]

Gene can't be all that bad - he loves his mother

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScdJURKGWM&feature=kp

[uwe]

I guess he´s all right until he speaks. Ok, he´s a businessman more than a bass player.
Did anyone ever read the Bass Player interview in the late nineties (when he was on the cover)?
I think I lost the last bit of respect for him after reading that, you can´t even laugh at it.

Wasn't that around the Revenge album? I thought that was a good interview, he said he was a "meat and potatoes" bass player. Which isn't even true, he's more than that, but generally doesn't bother.

[uwe]

Here's the absolute worst part: it's an act, the 'face' of the Kiss brand. My buddy who knows Gene says that in real life out of public view, a nicer guy is hard to find, but Gene doesn't want anyone to know that. With that reality show of his, I think he's had to live his 'persona' so much that he can't really separate himself anymore, but he's rich so he can pay for the therapy ...if he doesn't work out some kind of licensing deal there.

I always took it as an act, he gives "tough guy"-impressions. But at the core he's the kid of an Auschwitz survivor, the conviction instilled in him that only immense wealth can protect you - whether in a concentration camp or outside - if worst comes to worst. It's a well-known fact that children of concentration camp survivors have their own issues. And how could they not.

[Dave W]

I've always assumed the public Gene is an act, no matter what he's doing or saying.

[amptech]

Wasn't that around the Revenge album? I thought that was a good interview, he said he was a "meat and potatoes" bass player. Which isn't even true, he's more than that, but generally doesn't bother.

On the contrary, he said he was not a meat and potatoes player -  he somehow pointed himself out as a melodic player, and that he´s bass playing had balls. On the other hand, he seemed to dislike ´meat and potatoes´players like AC/DC which used the bass as a rhythm instrument along with the drums.

I think KISS was a good act making good pop songs, at least in the earliest days - and see the melodic bass point of view although his playing is.. well, it´s OK.. But as a bass player in a rock group saying he´s got balls and AC/DC does not?
Is he still grumpy because AC/DC blew them away as an opening act in the 70´s?

[uwe]

I now have a distinct recollection of that article/interview and I rate it as one of his best - save for the one in Hustler (I read this publication for the interviews and kept the pictorials covered with a blank page at all times!) a few years before where he confided his backstage experience of a young Catholic novice in a habit ("she wasn't a real nun yet") asking him to take her in his stage gear (he obliged, call it monotheistic courtesy and respect  ): "She wanted to be f***ed by this huge beast." And how it gave him tranquility/peace of mind ("I'm a jewish boy from Brooklyn and f***ed a Catholic nun, what more can you ask for?").

In my - alerted and vivid! - recollection he did say (in the BP interview) that he was a "meat & potatoes bass player", but he defined that not as "four on the floor, root note, locking in with the bass drum" (the popularity of which he drew from the advent of disco in the late seventies and how all of the sudden "producers wanted nothing else"). He mentioned that Ron Wood (Jeff Beck Group era) was among his favorite bass players (and if you listen to Hard Luck Woman you hear the nods towards what Ron Wood did in Rod Stewart's Maggie May though George will probably spoil it all for me now by chiming in "Paul Stanley played bass on that track!"  ) and that on Revenge (the then current album) he for the first time in decades took the chance to liberate his playing from the bass drum, play more riffs, slides, dead notes, and  "be generally noisy on the bass". And how he enjoyed that. Together with a "Fender knock-off piece of shit" he accidentlly found on NYC's 48th Street "which sounded great for the recording" (but all other hastily procured specimen of that same model did not offer as good a tone).

And I think he's right. Simmons is not a root note thumper at all, but very much a sixties/early seventies style pentatonic riff player. In fact, on those early Kiss recordings his bass playing sounds a little old-fashioned, even quaint, and too busy even for the time (in a hard rock setting, the "tyranny of the bass drum" was just setting in). And always a bit ungainly, but then musicianly elegance doesn't rate high on the Kiss-o-meter. I hear a lot of old school rock'n'roll lines in Simmons' early playing, just listen to "Come on and Love me".

And I don't think he had any intention of knocking Cliff Williams whose playing he took as an example of root note throbbing - I'm sure he would have appreciated Williams' playing on those three Home albums before the latter got into the fangs of the Young Brothers who told him what (not) to play, paying him king's ransom for it.

AC/DC are habitual whiners when it comes to their (long gone) opening act days. The Young Bros and their goddamned underdog pretensions. According to them, they were always mistreated (no pun intended): Deep Purple, Rainbow, Kiss, you name it. But Kiss have a reputation of being one of the nicest "big" bands in the business to their opening acts as bands as diverse as the Scorpions, Judas Priest, Slade and Manfred Mann's Earth Band can attest to. You only get thrown off a Kiss tour for demolishing a hotel room (Gene doesn't like wanton destruction of values), not for playing or going down too well (no pun intended!!!). Kiss are realistic regarding their musical skills, but sufficiently self-assured about the popularity of their live act.

[amptech]

AC/DC remember Gene as nice too, I think it was in '78 when Gene saw AC/DC (whisky a go-go?) , and wanted them to open for them.
Gene contacted someone in the management and asked for Angus, when Ang replied : Gene wants to see me? It should be me who wants to see him

I'd love to see a hungry AC/DC open for KISS, Sabbath, Thin Lizzy etc..

As for the meat and potatoes, I was quoting (found the article/issue) not remembering.

[uwe]

I saw a hungry AC/DC open for Rainbow in 1976 - no one had heard of them back then. I found they sounded dim-witted and heavy-handed. In a word: hopeless.

Couple of years later I saw one of the last Bon Scott concerts before he died. In Offenbach. AC/DC fans are still in awe about that one. Me? I only went because of their opening band, a then little know Midlands outfit that nicked its name from a Bob Dylan song: Judas Priest. What did I think of AC/DC ? They were just the same as in 1976: Dim-witted and heavy-handed.

A few years ago I went to see them again: Black Ice tour. It was 1976 all over again, except that Brian Johnson was now singing (and Cliff Williams playing bass). Angus' solos sounded as in 1976, he showed his butt like in 1976, he was carried around like in 1976 ... they played "new" songs that sounded like the ones in 1976. All very dim-witted and heavy-handed. Amazing how they keep their standard.

I understand the archaic charm of AC/DC, but it quickly overstays its welcome with me - after circa three songs. AC/DC sound like overamplified Troggs to me, but how often can you hear Wild Thing consecutively? In essence they are how hard rock must sound to someone who doesn't like hard rock.

I like heavy music - always have, still do -, but I like it with some finesse. I've never found that with AC/DC. Their less is more everything approach totally confines their music to a point where they are a caricature of themselves. It's no coincidence that Butthead wears their T-shirt.

Compared to AC/DC's one-trick-ponyness, Kiss is like The Beatles and an icon of at least occasional progression.

 

[gweimer]

I saw AC/DC (more like heard from backstage) at an outdoor show in Davenport, IA.  The bill that day was - TKO, AC/DC, UFO, Nazareth, Heart.  We came up to the park as AC/DC was starting.  Their sound was one of the best live sounds I remember.  Angus cut like a knife through the air; vocals were right there.  I became a fan without even knowing them.  After their set, I found myself at the edge of the river, talking with Bon Scott over a beer.  He was cordial and laid back.  We talked for about half an hour.  The highlight of their set was Angus running off the stage (and right past us, with his eyes rolled back in his head), running completely around the ball park, and getting forklifted up to the stage again during his solo on "Whole Lotta Rosie".

TKO spent their time trying to start/repair their truck after they played.  UFO just plain sucked.  Zal was a prick.  Heart was great.

[Highlander]

Drinking a beer with Bon... now that's a nice memory to have...

Saw the last tour with Bon (Hammersmith) and the first few BJ tours and also MoR - enjoyed every show... (maybe I'm easy to please, Uwe )

My best man remembers seeing him in a kilt, playing the bagpipes, at a pub in Hammersmith (Red Cow) and every London gig post that point... not seen him since circa '90

[amptech]

Compared to AC/DC's one-trick-ponyness, Kiss is like The Beatles and an icon of at least occasional progression.

Apart from the obvious, that AC/DC is a great band that could (and can) actually play and KISS basically have businessmen posing for money - and for some not understandable reason never used a penny on band lessons so they can play a groovy rythm (rock=rythm, listen to AC/DC and you'll get it) , I agree.  Hey, wait.. I don't! As I said, they have a good few songs (KISS) and their act was probably a treat in the 70's (I was so bored last time I saw KISS with Ace/makup, I left before they were finished.. bad monitoring perhaps? They were 4 people not able to play together!) while AC/DC is at least a tight good rocking group, no matter what you think of their songwriting skills. And if you do not like the songs of the heavy handed opening act, you can always go powder your nose or whatever you do whilst preparing for KISS or Brainbow or whatever posers that dares try to top them

EDIT: uh.., I'll just sneak over to the gear discussion page and hide, or I'll be thrown out for good

[uwe]

No you won't, why? It's alright to like AC/DC - I just never did whether they were a small opening act or a mega-band on their Black Ice Tour. They have a dozen or so of catchy songs and Highway to Hell and Hell's Bells are classics.

The legendary groove of AC/DC escapes me (though, within their limitations, they groove more than Kiss - Peter Criss had a Ringonesque groove at least - in various incarnations, I'll grant you that), they largely just rock, but roll very little. Nearly all their songs have an identical rhythm basis and bpm and, frankly, I don't think they would have it in them to play a quick shuffle elegantly. Even on a slow one such as The Jack they don't swing like other heavy bands could (Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, Status Quo - Led Zep, btw, couldn't play a shuffle anything but ploddingly either, but then they largely avoided it where they could).

As for posers and non-posers: When Angus sticks his bum out isn't that posing too? Or did I miss some deeper sociological relevance of the act?    Let's not even talk about 60 year-olds wearing schoolboy uniforms, hardly non-posing attire for a grown man me thinks.

I like bands with a groove that swings. Ian Paice has that making Deep Purple never sound clumsy, so do the Stones. The first Dire Straits line up had it, Thin Lizzy had an impeccable shuffle groove, so does Quo, even their non-shuffle-rhythms never sounds harsh no matter how hard or fast they play.




THAT'S A LOVELY VID THOUGH, SHOWING BON IN ALL HIS ROGUE CHARM!!!

No doubt, AC/DC have a groove too (though I preferred Chris Slade to Phil Rudd, crucify me!), but it is just one groove which they never change! And to me even Highway to Hell will forever sound stiffer and more angular than the Stones' Honky Tonk Women or Free's Alright Now, both of them very similar in structure (no bass in the verses!) and tempo to AC/DC's signature tune.

[nofi]

judas priest is an old expression that means oh my god, damn it or something along those lines.

[westen44]

AC/DC--never been a fan.  Not in the slightest bit interested in them. 

[Pilgrim]

The last AC/DC clip reminds me a lot of James Brown in the Blues Brothers movies (both of which I thoroughly enjoyed).