Quality amps

[dadagoboi]

I own that version you pictured, 1.5 Rack space 2-12 AX7 VTBP-201, mine is a '93 with Jensen transformer pre/post EQ D.I.   It's quiet, clean and transparent  Jim Demeter designed it, still owns the company and builds all his stuff in house.  He must be doing a good job of fooling the likes of Lee Sklar and Bob Glaub among others.

I use my Demeter with a made in USA Ampeg SVP-1500.   The pair cost me under $1k used.  What's a 2 tube D.I go for these days?

Sklar's original 1.5 rack space:


mine:

Demeter's tube preamp never impressed me: noisy and not really good for anything that you couldn't easily get elsewhere for MUCH cheaper.

Such as?

[hieronymous]

How about this?

http://juleamps.com/shop/viewitem.php?groupid=2&productid=30

(Don't mean to derail the current conversation, I'm actually really enjoying it, especially the scans!)

[Granny Gremlin]

The VTHF-300M

65LBS! (and likely priced to match) .  What's that, like 5-6 RU?

Those older Peavey tube power amps (as well as the Alphabass, which may nopt be much lighter, but certainly cheaper) are looking mighty good in comparison, though I am sure this Demeter just roars.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Such as?

There's a distinct possibility that the one I tried may have had something wrong with it, since the owner of the studio where it lived was spectacularly less than honest. It could have been a counterfeit, too. Hell, whatever it was REALLY, it was probably stolen anyway. It looked a lot LIKE the VTBP-201 but was a full 2 rack spaces and had different knobs, more similar to the ones pictures than any other pics I found, but still different.  I just remember that when I tried it, it was noisy, with lost of hissy white noise and never sounded like it was actually doing much of anything tonewise. Even major adjustments to the knobs produced only minor variations in sound.

It was set up in a rack with a Trace Elliot preamp that sounded exactly the way Trace does and when I saw the Demeter name on the preamp, I expected great things. Given the circumstance, I'd be willing to chalk it up to something being fishy. Since then, I've avoided their gear and never been inside any of it, so I've never had a chance to alter my opinion. I read a few online reviews that talked about how minimal it was in terms of tone shaping and just assumed that those reviewers had encountered the same thing I did. Demeter preamps aren't that common anyway, but I'll give the next one I see a go.

As far as preamps with similar performance to my experience, the cheap tube ART boxes come to mind, but even they are quieter.

[dadagoboi]

There's a distinct possibility that the one I tried may have had something wrong with it, since the owner of the studio where it lived was spectacularly less than honest. It could have been a counterfeit, too. Hell, whatever it was REALLY, it was probably stolen anyway. It looked a lot LIKE the VTBP-201 but was a full 2 rack spaces and had different knobs, more similar to the ones pictures than any other pics I found, but still different.  I just remember that when I tried it, it was noisy, with lost of hissy white noise and never sounded like it was actually doing much of anything tonewise. Even major adjustments to the knobs produced only minor variations in sound.

It was set up in a rack with a Trace Elliot preamp that sounded exactly the way Trace does and when I saw the Demeter name on the preamp, I expected great things. Given the circumstance, I'd be willing to chalk it up to something being fishy. Since then, I've avoided their gear and never been inside any of it, so I've never had a chance to alter my opinion. I read a few online reviews that talked about how minimal it was in terms of tone shaping and just assumed that those reviewers had encountered the same thing I did. Demeter preamps aren't that common anyway, but I'll give the next one I see a go.

As far as preamps with similar performance to my experience, the cheap tube ART boxes come to mind, but even they are quieter.

It's true, not a great deal of tone shaping with the Demeter.   Transparency is more important to me than radical EQ possibilities.  I like to keep everything around 12 o'clock. The bass and my fingers will do the rest. If it doesn't sound good to me close to "flat", it's time to get another bass or rig or change strings.

My Hughes & Kettner 2 tube 'Crunch Master' sounds pretty good but it can be REALLY noisy.  It was free.

[amptech]

There's a distinct possibility that the one I tried may have had something wrong with it

Had a demeter preamp (cant remeber wich model, 2RU size) in for repair some years back. The guy who brought it
had it for years. He heard I had lots of good tubes stock, and wanted me to replace all tubes with NOS telefunken tubes.
Why, I asked - well he read that they sounded good and were low noise etc.. And boy, that thing had noise!
I tested the tubes he had and they were all good. I even shoved him how little difference the tele´s did. (They might have done a bigger difference if it were not for the noise already present). He said it had this noise since new, so I told him to take it back where he bought it.

This is the only Demeter I´ve come across, but it did seem like a very good build.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Had a demeter preamp (cant remeber wich model, 2RU size) in for repair some years back. The guy who brought it
had it for years. He heard I had lots of good tubes stock, and wanted me to replace all tubes with NOS telefunken tubes.
Why, I asked - well he read that they sounded good and were low noise etc.. And boy, that thing had noise!
I tested the tubes he had and they were all good. I even shoved him how little difference the tele´s did. (They might have done a bigger difference if it were not for the noise already present). He said it had this noise since new, so I told him to take it back where he bought it.

This is the only Demeter I´ve come across, but it did seem like a very good build.

Maybe it's an older model that's just really noisy? The 2 rackspace size and noise being common to both would go a long way towards explaining why it seems to have vanished from existence. I never got to see the guts of the Demeter I tried, but from the front panel, it looked to be decent quality.

[dadagoboi]

Maybe it's an older model that's just really noisy? The 2 rackspace size and noise being common to both would go a long way towards explaining why it seems to have vanished from existence. I never got to see the guts of the Demeter I tried, but from the front panel, it looked to be decent quality.

I've never seen a 2 rack space version, mine is 1.5.  Headphone jack to the right of 'Demeter' is a mod.

...you want to talk noise, the 1 space Peavey sitting on top will supply it, as well as radical tone shaping.


Sklar's appears to be the same 1.5 rack space but no active input.


I don't think noise generally is a problem with Demeter preamps, their primary intent was recording.  There's a trim pot between the 12AX7s to adjust output.  That could affect s/n ratio if turned too far.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I don't think noise generally is a problem with Demeter preamps, their primary intent was recording. 

That was a headscratcher for me, too. I'd heard nothing but good things about Demeter bass preamps, and then I tried one and it was just a hissy thing with next to NO tone shaping abilities. Maybe someone counterfeited a batch when they first got big. That was bad problem with China for awhile, before Uli Behrigner showed them how to do it with US backing. That would also explain the 2 rack spaces. In the late 80's and early 90's, the right amount of time for them to have fanned out and disappeared into the woodwork and someone like me to run across one, China put out a massive amount of counterfeit US goods, especially electronics all types, tubes included, encouraged by the party leadership so that they could both perfect their abilities to copy and increase their own QC.

The tone knob on a junkiest passive bass you can think of had more range than that preamp did. The knobs also had no effect on the noise. I always chalked it up to a case of the emperor's new clothes and my taste for low end, but who knows, maybe amptech and myself both encountered fake Demeters. I remember the 2 rackspace thing specifically because I thought the lettering on the preamp belonged farther up on the face. Maybe it was made off of a template from the 1.5 ru model.

There's a trim pot between the 12AX7s to adjust output.  That could affect s/n ratio if turned too far.

Those are metal film resistors and Wima caps, good stuff. The tubes themselves are Chinese 7025 "Silver Specials" that Lord Valve raved on about for years. They're a little bit noisier than old Western World stuff, but nothing to speak of in the right circuit, which is just about ANY that would work at all. The noise I'm talking about would have been unacceptable in any REAL studio, and the owner of the one where it lived probably knew the brand name and nothing more.

It was the era of the project studio, (anyone else JUST realize that that term is as antiquated as I just did?) brought to you courtesy of Greg Mackie, where for about $50k, you could get yourself a couple of ADATs, a Mackie mixer or one of their many QUALITY copycats (Soundtracks Topaz, Soundcraft Spirit, etc), a bunch of whatever leftover 80's rack gear floated your boat, and mix it all down to a crappy prosumer DAT tape recorder that ate more tapes than it ever played. It was one of those places, one of many studios that published gear lists like they were filling a tour rider. I'm sure the owner aquired it and probably never even used it. It was in a rack in the main room with a baby grand piano.

I helped wire that studio and never got paid a dime. The studio lasted for a few years until it became apparent that Knoxville was too close to Nashville for the kind of money the owner was charging for the expertise and talent that he did NOT have. He never set out to compete with the "big boys;" he was hoping to turn it into a writers' studio, but most independent songwriters either already had their own or were willing to pay the prices to get the service they wanted. I did get to see some neat stuff there and I learned some very valuable things, so it wasn't a total wash for me, but wiring an entire studio is a big job, and gas may have been less than $1 a gallon, but it wasn't free, and unlike much of the clientele/booking agents, I didn't take payment in the form of bj's. Yeah, that part was...creepy and NOT cool. Learning that gay fellatio was currency was not something I had ever endeavored to find out.

Demeter..yeah...that's what we were talking about.

[dadagoboi]

Those are metal film resistors and Wima caps, good stuff. The tubes themselves are Chinese 7025 "Silver Specials" that Lord Valve raved on about for years. They're a little bit noisier than old Western World stuff, but nothing to speak of in the right circuit, which is just about ANY that would work at all. The noise I'm talking about would have been unacceptable in any REAL studio, and the owner of the one where it lived probably knew the brand name and nothing more.

When ThundeBucker was here a few years ago and took a look inside he had the same thing to say about the components, all top notch...as far as the tubes, I put those in after being told by my buddy Robert, who has worked for Demeter off and on for two decades, that they were what Jim recommended.  I still have the originals around somewhere but it's a case of, "If it ain't broke..."

Jim Demeter, like ThunderBucker both did time in Hollywood as amp techs, Steve at Hollywood Sound among other places before getting his E.E. degree.  I'm sure they've both seen similar stuff to what you're relating.  They also have pretty high standards as to what they put their names on, so it would be a "head scratcher" as you say if Demeter was producing outright crap and fooling people for over 30 years with it.  Though that would be a great story!..sort of like GK.  Oh wait, has their stuff improved since I've been avoiding it like the plague for 40 years?  Next you'll tell me Acoustic amps have another sound besides subsonic bath tub farts.



ed note:- fixed a broken quote html tag that got truncated in the board upgrade

[dadagoboi]

Just heard from my buddy Robert at Demeter.  Great reception for the new amp and Bass Gear named it Best of Show or something like that.  List is $1500, dealer price is around $1000.

He said he hung out with Rob and that he's a cool dude (Demeter exhibits next to Warwick).  I don't know if Rob heard the amp.

[gweimer]

I actually purchased a new amplifier which was made in Ohio last year - a Reeves Custom 225. It was NOT cheap, but should last for the rest of the time I am here on earth.

I tried one of those at TB get together a few years ago.  I loved that amp!  If I were playing again, that would be on my short list.  I might even go with a 4x12 underneath.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Just heard from my buddy Robert at Demeter.  Great reception for the new amp and Bass Gear named it Best of Show or something like that.  List is $1500, dealer price is around $1000.

That's no small praise. I've been very happy with the way Tom Bowlus has made and kept that publication respectable and honest. He's one of the two lawyers I trust; although the other one has this weird Deep Purple thing...

[Tim Brosnan]

I would have to agree-every so often, when walking through the book stores, I'll look through BP magazine. I don't remember EVER seeing a bad review of anything. Of course, with these companies paying big money to advertise, I wouldn't expect BP to bite the hands that feed them.

[saltymonkey]

I would have to agree-every so often, when walking through the book stores, I'll look through BP magazine. I don't remember EVER seeing a bad review of anything. Of course, with these companies paying big money to advertise, I wouldn't expect BP to bite the hands that feed them.

Two different magazines. I'd agree with both of you. Bass Gear is indeed respectable and honest and Bass Player never gives a bad review of anything.