Quality amps

[Granny Gremlin]

Yeah, my guy is getting there, but a good few years in him yet; there are a bunch of younger guys among the others I mentioned though.

[Pilgrim]

The most positive way I can put it is that component level repair of electronic devices is becoming an unusual and hard-to-find specialized skill.  It's not easy to find someone who is competent or willing to get inside an electronic device and do component level repair.

At our university, the last classroom support techs capable of that kind of work have retired, left or moved to other positions which are higher priority.  Any more, it didn't pay for them to open up anything except to replace boards. Which isn't that bad, provided the boards are still available.

More bluntly, the people who know how to do this are boomers who are retiring.  Aside from a limited number of places where the volume of repairs and the high price of the equipment justify maintaining staff with this kind of skill, I think it's disappearing fast. All boomers are 50 or older now, so the clock is ticking.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Geography plays a major role too. Here in East Tennessee, musicians of all sorts are a dime a dozen, and there's always tons of used gear to be had, so a lot of times stuff that has minor issues gets tossed because broke musicians can find cheap used "new" amps easier than paying a tech to fix their old ones. That's where most of my stuff came from. Every single repair person I know without exception has either stopped doing it for lack of income or retired, generally the former. When you're buying parts and then customers flake and leave you with an amp that you can't sell for the money you have in it, you can't make a living, and that is more common than not.

The ENTIRE purpose of the "bench fee" is to offset for other non-paying customers. I quit years ago before things got THIS bad.  If you're a non warranty service center (and sometimes even if you are), a board to repair a switching amp can literally cost more than another of the same type sitting new on a store shelf! I can't tell you the number of times I'd get an amp on the bench and find a problem, give the customer an estimate and a timeframe to which they would agree, and then end up with a new amp for myself, because "Man, I just can't afford that now. Earl-Bob sold me his (fill in the bank) amp and now I'm broke." ...and the only money ever collected from four or five hours work and $60 in parts was the $30 bench fee. Just charging up front for parts weeded out half of my business, and I was glad to be rid of it. But when those are the only jobs you're getting, you can't do it.

I didn't have time to get warranty certification for companies because I was too busy working my REAL job, but I was better than ALL of the so-called "service centers" locally, which was a two-edged sword. I got stuff they had tried to fix and ruined and I got the customers that they knew better than to deal with. When the economy went bad in 2001, those became the ONLY customers. I was working full time and playing in a band as it was. I didn't have the time to chase deadbeats for junk amps. I also did work in other wide-area circles that WAS warranty work in GOOD service centers, and the story was the same there, except you were always waiting on amp companies to reimburse you and they had even more excuses than deadbeat musicians.

With a relatively low cost of living, this area pays wages that would be well below poverty in any major metro area, so everything effectively costs more because of it. I got whines about a $30 bench fee 12 years ago; in a major market, double that, and for anything complicated, quadruple it. Parts cost the same here, but people have less money to spend, so they're more likely to just flake. If you ever want a laugh, get on the Knoxville Craigslist page and look at prices people want for JUNK. MOST of the stuff is nearly new, probably broken, and priced higher than it was when it was new, last week.

I have a buddy who ran his own music store in Greeneville and did circuit (a route he made- not literally electronic circuits) repairs for a number of honest local shops (One shop was infamous for being crooks and they finally closed last year after decades of ripping people off and having them love them for it.) and he finally had to stop because costs wee just too much even with all his standing certifications and service center status. Add hostile manufacturers unto the mix like Fender, who is TRYING to get rid of all their independent service providers and has been for about five years, and it's stupid to even try. One former service center/music store dropped Fender entirely because of their new requirements for being a service center and dealer. They now charge WHOLESALE prices that are near the RETAIL of places like Guitar Center and Musicians Friend.

It's all because of money and greed. When an investment group buys an MI company, it is almost ALWAYS a very bad thing, and almost every major MI manufacturer is owned by an investment group. Mesa, Yorkville and possibly Peavey are still self-owned. Gibson doesn't count; The only electronics they put out are in their robo-Fireturds.

[Tim Brosnan]

My local shop no longer does Fender warranty work-getting paid by them for doing it got too difficult, so they gave up. Really makes me leery to buy a new Fender amp, and generally I like them. 

i have also been told about Fender; they are looking to go the direct route, like Carvin does. Fender now sells their products off their website-even necks and bodies. They never used to that I can remember.

It looks like the key here is to find good, older USA made amps, and stick with them. I like the idea of being able to get 500 watts out of a 6 pound amp, but I'll take a heavier one that I know I can count on to work over that anyday. I don't gig with loud bands anymore, so I don't need a refrigerator sized amp anymore. I don't abuse my gear either (how people manage to run over their stuff with their own cars, or have it fall out of a truck on the freeway is beyond me.)

I would have no problem with an older peavey, or a Yorkville; some people knock them, but I always got a sound out of them that I liked. I've never played an older Ampeg tube head, but I used to own a Bassman 100 tube head back in 1989 that I liked. that is one I regret getting rid of.

[Dave W]

 

i have also been told about Fender; they are looking to go the direct route, like Carvin does. Fender now sells their products off their website-even necks and bodies. They never used to that I can remember.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them do more direct selling, but they'll never go anywhere near 100% direct. It would be suicidal, even for a brand as established as Fender.

[Pilgrim]

It wouldn't surprise me to see them do more direct selling, but they'll never go anywhere near 100% direct. It would be suicidal, even for a brand as established as Fender.

I agree.  They do have some partners like GC who I suspect are mutually dependent on each other.  More outlets generally = more sales.  Adding direct sales would follow that path.

Given that I'm 63 and have no desire to carry heavy amps, although I understand the cautions voiced here about the new amps, I'm OK with keeping my Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0. First, I suspect that it's among the better micro amps, and second, as little playing time as I put on it (maybe 2-3 hours per week), I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it outlasts me.

[chromium]

The most positive way I can put it is that component level repair of electronic devices is becoming an unusual and hard-to-find specialized skill.  
...
More bluntly, the people who know how to do this are boomers who are retiring.

I love working on old music electronics as a hobby (mostly synths, signal processors... no amps) , and marvel at how some of these ideas ever even saw light of day.  These devices contained a mind numbing amount of point-to-point wiring, intricate (hand drawn) PCB layouts, elaborate enclosure work... and all of it was done by skilled engineers/techs in the USA.  Labor of love?  Obviously these companies were not being run by businessmen, and profit margins took second saddle.  (...and eventually Japanese competition with better business savvy blew them all out of the market)



That pic above is a portion of the behind-the-panel wiring of my '74 Minimoog with the boards removed.  Over 10,000 of these were manufactured this way - crazy by today's standards!

Nowadays, that synth would fetch 2500-3K on the used market, contains rare/obsolete components, and I can count on one hand the number of *professional* techs (worldwide even) that I would trust sending something like this to for service... and PBG's post describes their careers, professional experiences, and livelihood to a tee.  Most of the music electronics I've acquired over the years was broken/malfunctioning, and I bought in cheap (or in some cases free) because the owners simply couldn't afford to get the stuff repaired.

Nowadays, anyone who has the wherewithal or interest to service a device like this would be better suited pursuing a career in software engineering - programming commodity DSPs for throwaway instruments.. or writing apps for cheap mobile devices being churned out in Asia (most of which will end up in a landfill in 2-3 years).  

There's no money in building/repairing hardware.

[amptech]

There's no money in building/repairing hardware.

That is the facts, but I have to believe that times will change that.

[Granny Gremlin]

We might be better off up here in Toronto, compared to most of the State-side cities - we're basically the Nashville/LA/NYC of the music biz for all of Canada, so if there's a tech anywhere in the country, it's here - even younger sones just starting out (though I know that there's guys all over, Montreal/Winnipeg/Halifax/Vancouver, if not how good they are, due to never having used them... heard of some scheisterism out in Van).  .. and Chromium, my dude is definitely worthy of working on your Moog - I've seen a number of esoteric / huge / modular synths in his living room over the years.

It may be that the biz model has to change/adapt.  My idea for this was to unite studio/venue/rehearsal space with an in house tech - plenty to keep a guy busy + new clients walking in all the time.  Mostly around here, with the young guys, you see them running a gear-making company (pedals and/or boutique amps) as well as offering repair service.  I know 2 guys like that locally, and that's also how Oliver Ackermann (Death by Audio) got started (though he's probably too busy with his band/making boutique pedals for famous people to do random service anymore).

[dadagoboi]

Just got an email from a buddy of mine at Demeter.  This is their new 800 watt hybrid.  Hand made in California.  Preamp is the original Demeter based on a Hiwatt. 

[Granny Gremlin]

That thing looks good to me. Probably too pricey and I really don't need that much power.

I've never used their instrument gear, but I have massive GAS for Demeter's Realverb rack unit (but due  not stereo - 2 channels but not identical, and already owning an AKG BX25, couldn't justify it... though it appears they've gotten cheaper since I gave up on the idea, hmmn).

[hieronymous]

My GAS has been relatively stable lately - been pretty happy with my GK MB-112 II - but that shot of the Demeter amp kinda got to me! On a trip to one of my local music stores I noticed an amp I probably wouldn't have had I not been looking at this thread - the Mesa Boogie Prodigy. Had to go back and re-read drbassman's thread!

No plans to purchase any of these though - not only can I not afford it, I don't play enough and if I was the GK has been meeting my needs. Every now and again I find myself fantasizing about tubes (never having played through some of the bigger stuff a lot of you guys talk about) but I've got a tube in my signal chain (CAE/CAJ tube compressor) and can always pull out the Alembic F-2B if I really get a hankering.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Demeter's tube preamp never impressed me: noisy and not really good for anything that you couldn't easily get elsewhere for MUCH cheaper. It wasn't bad, just not worth the price of admission. I'd like to see their old 300 watt tube power amp sometime.

[dadagoboi]

Demeter's tube preamp never impressed me: noisy and not really good for anything that you couldn't easily get elsewhere for MUCH cheaper. It wasn't bad, just not worth the price of admission. I'd like to see their old 300 watt tube power amp sometime.

Names please.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Names please.

Here's the tube power amp:

The VTHF-300M

I can't find the preamp I tried. It was about 20 years ago and was a two rackspace bass pre, but NOT the VTBP-201. I can't find it on a Google image search. The closest any of them comes is this: 



...and that's just an older version of the VTBP-201. Was there an earlier tube bass preamp from them?