Rosewood fretboard oil?

Denis · December 20, 2013, 07:58:46 AM

I know there's been a discussion about this but couldn't locate it. What's generally thought of around here as the best oil for fretboards?

Granny Gremlin · December 20, 2013, 08:22:58 AM

Clean the board with 0000 steel wool (in direction of grain) and then tung oil (rub in until absorbed, also in direction of grain, wipe off excess, but often there isn't any). Repeat oil application if you think the board will drink more/it's really dry and sucked up the first coat voraciously.

Just avoid anything petrolium based (like most actual 'fretboard polish' type products - also they're stupid expensive, especially the Gibson one). That includes 'Lemon Oil' which isn't. Any other actual plant-based oil (linseed etc) should also be fine, but I swear by tung (aka teak oil).

Dave W · December 20, 2013, 08:48:04 AM

I almost never need to oil a fretboard, but if you need to, a very light coat of a light mineral oil will do -- wipe on, wipe off excess.. Most lemon oils are actually light mineral oils with an aromatic additive. Products like GHS Fast Fret are similar and will do the trick. Yes, they're petroleum based, that's exactly what you need.

Strongly disagree about using tung oil, teak oil or linseed oil. These are drying oils, i.e. surface finishes. They're not conditioning oils. And almost all such products contain petroleum driers too, very few of them are raw oils.

Granny Gremlin · December 20, 2013, 09:16:48 AM

Tell that the the 12th Fret - they're the best luthier shop in town (I'm sure you've heard of them as regards vintage sales) and it's what they use. This advice is straight from them and I've been following it for over a decade and all my instruments love it, as do those of my set up clients.

Tung WILL penetrate and condition and only forms a surface coating if profuse multiple coats are used (like seriously a lot - I have finished instruments and other odds and ends with it and it takes well over 10 coats to do that in any sort of detectable way). A single coat (or even 2 if the wood is very dry - Canadian winters, eh) will penetrate into the wood and condition it (pores close up, hairline cracks, e.g. caused by excessive drying of the wood, even disappear etc). In fact, it is often one of the points brought up AGAINST using tung oil as a (for example) instrument finish - that it does not form a good protective surface layer easily.

Yes most products will have some drying agents in them, but these solvents are not always petroleum based - turpentine etc, though some use naptha - and in any case, they evaporate away leaving the natural wood oil to penetrate (their only purpose is to thin the oil to make it easier to apply and penetrate the wood; less hand rubbing, i.e. friction heat to lower the oil viscosity is required). It is not difficult to find pure linseed or tung oil either, but not required (the diluted kind is easier to use, pure is only required for food-safe applications; manufaturers recommend thinning it, at least for the first coat, if not for use in food-safe applications).

"the penetrating power of tung oil is excellent"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil

Dave W · December 20, 2013, 09:25:47 AM

I couldn't care less what the 12th Fret says. These are surface finishes, period. It's not open to debate. Read Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishes, Jeff Jewitt's Great Wood finishes or similar.

Rosewood does not require a finish, and except for Rickenbacker, AFAIK no other factory puts a finish on their rosewood boards. If you want to put a surface finish on yours, that's fine, but that's what you're doing. You're not oiling or conditioning it.

FWIW, if you use a real raw oil finish, it will take months to dry. If you plan on using the bass, you'll have a gummy mess. However, most finishes sold as "pure" actually aren't raw.

Edited to add: the Wikipedia claim about tung oil is baloney.

Granny Gremlin · December 20, 2013, 09:48:02 AM

It does cause a surface finish, but not easily and not a strong/thick/durable one. I am not disputing that. However, that does not preclude the fact that it ALSO penetrates and conditions.

Put some on a peice of wood and then look at the edge - it obviously penetrates. Compare it to a pretolium oil in a similar test. I have done this experiment; have you? It's not a debate based on opinion - it's science.

I'll even use your own source against you. Googling "jeff Jewitt's Great Wood finish tung oil" pops up this:

"Both linseed and tung oils are penetrating finishes, which means they penetrate the fibers of the wood and harden. ... These oils are usually not built up with enough coats to form a surface film, like that of varnish or lacquer, because the film is too soft."
http://www.finewoodworking.com/toolguide/articles/selecting-a-finish.aspx

So your baloney claim is actually the baloney.

I don't mind being corrected, but this beating-down question-not absolutist thing you're doing here is rather contrary to your stated (to me previously) policy of truth being paramount around here.

I really don't understand why we can't just disagree on what we prefer to use. There is ample anecdotal evidence to support use of either type of product for this application and I don't see why readers can't be trusted to decide for themselves what to try (including follow up googling of things) ... it's just so dogmatic.

I'm done now, fyi, so go ahead and have the last word.

Dave W · December 20, 2013, 10:30:54 AM

Jake, I could get Bob Flexner and a whole panel of finish chemists on here to explain it to you, complete with cutaway photos showing how little penetration any oil has, and you would still argue the point to death, because that's just who you are.

I have no problem disagreeing with you about what to use. As I said, if you want to put a finish on your fretboard, by all means do. But don't pretend that it's a conditioner. It's a finish. And not one that penetrates to any degree that would make any difference. BTW, you're taking Jewitt out of context. Read one of his books and see what he's comparing it to.

Denis · December 20, 2013, 11:00:12 AM

Quote from: Dave W on December 20, 2013, 08:48:04 AM
I almost never need to oil a fretboard, but if you need to, a very light coat of a light mineral oil will do -- wipe on, wipe off excess.. Most lemon oils are actually light mineral oils with an aromatic additive. Products like GHS Fast Fret are similar and will do the trick. Yes, they're petroleum based, that's exactly what you need.

The only reason I'm asking is that the fretboard on my newly reacquired JJ doesn't look as bright and pretty as it did before it went on vacation. I just want to take a precaution, just in case.

pilgrim9 · December 20, 2013, 12:01:23 PM

Hi, it is really dry in Colorado and you have to oil rosewood fret boards here or they actually start to shrink and the fret tangs start to poke out. Really a big problem on MIM Fenders, I have seen 100`s of them do it here. I wipe the neck off after every set so I only clean the board if it needs it with lemon oil, never an abrasive. Then a very light coat of mineral oil and rub it in against the grain 1st, then with the grain for the obscene gesture part of it. I let it sit for a cigarette break and wipe it down. I repeat if it does not look shiney happy, let it set for another half hour or so after wipe down cause oil that didn`t soak in will show up. The wood only absorbs what it needs it seems to me. I`m more of a "feels right" than technical sort of guy so this is just what I have been doing for a few decades out on the prairie.

chromium · December 20, 2013, 01:23:11 PM

Quote from: pilgrim9 on December 20, 2013, 12:01:23 PM
Hi, it is really dry in Colorado and you have to oil rosewood fret boards here or they actually start to shrink and the fret tangs start to poke out. Really a big problem on MIM Fenders, I have seen 100`s of them do it here. I wipe the neck off after every set so I only clean the board if it needs it with lemon oil, never an abrasive. Then a very light coat of mineral oil and rub it in against the grain 1st, then with the grain for the obscene gesture part of it. I let it sit for a cigarette break and wipe it down. I repeat if it does not look shiney happy, let it set for another half hour or so after wipe down cause oil that didn`t soak in will show up. The wood only absorbs what it needs it seems to me. I`m more of a "feels right" than technical sort of guy so this is just what I have been doing for a few decades out on the prairie.

That's pretty much what I've done on mine... no idea if its the best way, but they always come out looking/feeling sharp!

When I get one with a really goobed-up board or frets, I lightly douse the #0000 steel wool in lemon oil and scrub the whole board with it going with the grain and over all the frets. Really cleans 'em up well. YMMV

rahock · December 21, 2013, 05:48:44 AM

I'm a lemon oil guy too. I have mostly maple necks and I use it on them also. I wipe the whole instrument down with it as a cleaner and then I polish it up . I have one bass, one 40 year old guitar, and one 140 year old mandolin with rosewood fretboards and they see lemon oil periodicly. If the frets are a little gunky, I use a soft tooth brush with lemon oil and follow up with some 0000 steel wool.

In a very dry environment a lot of bad things can happen to a rosewood fretboard. I knew a guy who had a beautiful old gold or orange label ( mid 60s) Gibson 335 that had seen almost no playing time and had barely a mark on it and the finish of the instrument was good, but the fretboard was a mess. All the inlays were popping out, there were gaps around everyone of them, and the grain of the entire board was so open you could stick your fingernail right in the cracks. This thing was stored in its' case for years here in Michigan where it's pretty humid, but it was in a house with a poor humidifier and it ruined an otherwise beautiful instrument. I'm no expert, but with the rosewood as F'd up as it was, it would seem that the finish would also be dry and cracked, but it wasn't. Anyway, the thing I took away from this experience was, take good care of the rosewood.
Rick

amptech · December 21, 2013, 08:04:09 AM

Quote from: pilgrim9 on December 20, 2013, 12:01:23 PM
The wood only absorbs what it needs it seems to me. I`m more of a "feels right" than technical sort of guy so this is just what I have been doing for a few decades out on the prairie.

Feels right is always is something you usually come a long way with. Unless one has a luthier lurking inside them, the musician/instrument relationship
answers it's own questions. When you approach challenges that calls for greater expertise, I'll stick to books. I will not comment on the tung oil debate, I only have the big 'Erlewine guitar repair book' and it only have a small finish chapter. However, he quotes many good finish books, and recommends reading them. I would think an instrument first needs a controlled atmosphere, then of course rosewood maintainance can be done with mineral/lemon oils. I think all the wood authors recommends using as little as possible/necessary and always wipe off excess, but then again leaving lots of oil on the board would not 'feel good', so common sense...

Google, on the other hand- well, it's difficult to speak out against it. But when you get used to get any information the second you need it,
you will stick to the quickest information, not the best. There is so much crappy information out there (I know everyone knows but I need to say it
to myself too!) and sometimes I wonder why I bother.

.. When all you need is to search through the threads of this nice forum!

4stringer77 · December 21, 2013, 08:24:14 AM

Eat a bunch of fried chicken and then play your bass. Next thing you know your chicken greased fretboard will have you sounding like Bootsy Collins. Yeah Baby!

Lightyear · December 21, 2013, 10:03:41 AM

When I was a kid working for H&H music here in Houston we oiled rosewood boards with Bore Oil - which was made for woodwind instruments. Worked great to hydrate the wood and improve the appearance. It comes in a little one ounce dropper bottle and one bottle will last you a lifetime. If you are Uwe it will last you 25 years.

As for Tung Oil - every bit of Tung Oil "finish" you can buy is nothing more than glorified, ultra thin polyurethane. There may be some small bit of real tung oil in the bottle but it is such a small amount that it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Dave W · December 21, 2013, 04:06:54 PM

Quote from: Lightyear on December 21, 2013, 10:03:41 AM
When I was a kid working for H&H music here in Houston we oiled rosewood boards with Bore Oil - which was made for woodwind instruments. Worked great to hydrate the wood and improve the appearance. It comes in a little one ounce dropper bottle and one bottle will last you a lifetime. If you are Uwe it will last you 25 years.

Bore oil is just another mineral oil based formulation. That's why it works as well as lemon oil.

Quote from: Lightyear on December 21, 2013, 10:03:41 AM
As for Tung Oil - every bit of Tung Oil "finish" you can buy is nothing more than glorified, ultra thin polyurethane. There may be some small bit of real tung oil in the bottle but it is such a small amount that it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Some of them are varnishes (poly, alkyd or phenolic resin based), some are oil/varnish blends. Very few are real oils. If you wipe some on a piece of glass and it dries hard, it's a varnish. Good article by Flexner.

Bottom line, though, is that when you need to oil and condition a rosewood fretboard, you need a proper lubricant -- not a finish.