Finally tried a Epi Classic Pro Thunderbird!

[Hörnisse]

My beer comes from Texas.     I did an inventory of my guitars/basses and all are made in the USA with the exception of my Memphis Les Paul which is Japanese.  I don't own anything newer than the mid 1980's.  Even my Peavey Alphabass head, SWR ST220, SM400S and Guild/Hartke cabinets are made in the USA. 

I have a '94 Toyota Pickup and the wife has an '04 Honda Odyssey and they both are nice and reliable.  Can't say the same about my '77 AMC Hornet AMX though.....

[Dave W]

They work the heritage angle to death.  Too bad they don't live up to it, let alone actually innovating in a meaningful way.  Instead they come up with crap like the Fireturd or automatic tuning.  They must think those will compensate for their laughable quality to price ratio.

I will grant them this: they do offer more low priced guitars made in USA than Fender, G&L, MusicMan etc. And in the higher price ranges, working the heritage angle seems to have paid off well for them. The problem is quality control.

[Highlander]

I'll give you the UK angle - excluding specialists; excluding alcohol; excluding heritage and history and holiday destinations, there is very little, almost nothing left, that is British (including the "Brits"), unless you are wealthy and can afford bespoke... looking round here... sitting on Swedish furniture, typing on a Chinese Dell, with a Japanese TV in the corner... oh... forgot something... we still got the language...

Hmm... give it fifty... the language will be all that's left... 

Coming back to instruments.... when I bought my RD the general distinction round here (UK) was that it was the difference between buying a Rolls or buying a Ford (a Fender, no offence, etc) but that was then and this is now. For most of us the harsh realities are what we have to face; it's no different for the big suppliers, but I go along with Dave: there is no excuse for poor QC...

[gearHed289]

"Allowed"?  What's the alternative?  How does one stop it?

Well, I'm no expert on this stuff, but couldn't there be tariffs applied to at least somewhat level the playing field? It's especially tough to compete price-wise as sales plummet on US goods and prices need to come up to make up for diminishing volume.

[dadagoboi]

Well, I'm no expert on this stuff, but couldn't there be tariffs applied to at least somewhat level the playing field? It's especially tough to compete price-wise as sales plummet on US goods and prices need to come up to make up for diminishing volume.

The consumer ends up paying the tariff costs.  Pretty difficult to swallow when the average American's income has stagnated or dropped in the last 20 years.

[gweimer]

And just by sheer coincidence, a friend of my daughter's just got back from Japan, and gave her fiance and her a bottle of Yamazaki Whiskey.  I'll find out what she has to say about it.

[gearHed289]

The consumer ends up paying the tariff costs.

Isn't that the idea? To make people think twice about buying imports?

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I have always been a follower of brands, but after belt loops coming off my Levi's jeans and looking at the tags to discover they are made in places I have never heard of

The last Levi's plant in the US was here in Knoxville and closed 10-15 years ago.

I deal with people everyday that come into Seattle Lighting with a straight face and tell me that they want to purchase a U.S. made product, I usually show them this mfg's book  http://www.hubbardtonforge.com/

...just letting you know that the catalog link shows up as a blackhat exploit in my anti-virus. That means there's a decent possibility that the site has been hacked and may be dropping malware on any visitors.

[uwe]

I'm not a frenzied free marketeer in all respects, but the fact of the matter is: As economies become more senior part of their production will always be ousted from the market by foreign cheaper competition until one day that same thing happens to these competitors. The only way to avoid this is to stay ahead and be innovative, polish the brand, invest, watch quality painstakingly and keep selling to people who can afford better quality and are prepared to pay for it, be it for lifestyle reasons or a quality demanding nature. Porsche's 911 stalwart hasn't seen serious competiton from India or China yet and if SIEMENS sells natural gas compression turbines to countries with vast natural gas resources, their only serious competitor is GE, likewise with Boeing and Airbus, I do not see Chinese and Indonesian passenger aircraft take over the world market for quite some time.

I hate to say it (now I really sound like a free marketeer), but fencing off your economy against this fact of life might be popular, but name me one country where it has in the mid and long term fostered the home economy? France has put tariffs on Japanese cars for ages, Germany hasn't, now help me with this, whose auto industry is again the stronger one? Protecting your own geographic markets is also inherently unfair against developing countries broadening their world market share as they are entitled to unless your preference is for the world to be an eternal caste system where the wealthy stay wealthy and the have-nots stay have-nots.

And it's not a one way street either: I don't remember the US asking for permission when it toppled the British Empire in industry production and, eventually, as a world power. Nor do US farmers seem to be overtly concerned that their ability to produce huge amounts of surplus grain cheaply undercuts third world farmers who cannot compete due to lack of agricultural technology.   

[dadagoboi]

I'm in general agreement, Uwe, except for the unconscious racism...Don't bet against ANY Chinese industry.  If the US ever gets high speed rail, which I doubt, the suppliers will be Chinese.  That one major screw up a few years ago was an anomaly, they have the world's largest system and safety has been excellent since.  The recently opened Oakland Bay Bridge was built with Chinese supplied steel because the US just doesn't have modern bridge building ability or the money/will to start it.  Why should building airliners be any different?  They'll get there when they think the time is right, thru joint ventures or whatever it takes if it's in their economic interests.

No, no Porsches, let alone Ferraris but they're busy building transportation for the world's largest domestic car market.  They don't need that chump change.

[uwe]

No racism intended, I have a lot of admiration for what China has done/achieved in the last fifty or so years. They already build good quality products as is and will get even better over time, but at the same time will be faced with competiton from other emerging countries with cheaper labor and environmental costs. It's a cycle.

Hey, and I don't even like the Dalai Lama!  Autocratic, caste system-supporting, Nazi-schooled, infant-death-rate-do-nothing wolf in a sheep's blanket. 

[TBird1958]

There's no doubt, the best (and worst!) electric trains come from China.
It's all about who writes the spec and how closely the importer comissioning the work watches the product for QC.
I wish I could build a boxcar like this.......it's stock, out of the box - amazing scale fidelity and workmanship for about $20.00
 

[godofthunder]

 Still waiting back ordered until 10/3/13.

[gearHed289]

Good points Uwe. Thanks for the perspective.

The only way to avoid this is to stay ahead and be innovative, polish the brand, invest, watch quality painstakingly and keep selling to people who can afford better quality and are prepared to pay for it, be it for lifestyle reasons or a quality demanding nature.

This very much applies to the company I run. We make custom road cases for audio/video/lighting, and anything else that needs protection on the road. We're at the high end of the price range. I tell people all the time - we don't compete based on price, we compete based on quality and service. Our little motto is "Design, Materials, Craftsmanship, Service". These are the areas where we excel. We'll lose almost every time if price is the deciding factor. And business is through the roof! We can barely keep up and have had a 4 week lead time for over a year. Hiring more guys and making more room in the shop is a constant struggle. We move over 40 grand a week worth of CASES! Sorry, I'm rambling now...

Anyway... Sorry for your wait Scott! 

[TBird1958]

I had a very nice older woman come into the shop yesterday, she wanted a U.S. made lamp - and she bought a Hubbardton Forge piece from me. $916.00, and a very happy customer.