Epiphone EB3 in Pelham Blue

[Dave W]

I stand by what I said, 100%.

It was a semi-transparent finish, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. You definitely could see the grain. You couldn't feel it, though. It was smooth. FWIW, a friend of mine has a '57 TV Special and a '56 sunburst Junior, both finishes are in pretty good shape and both are smooth.

It's disappointing to see Stew-Mac comparing a worn finish with a later one that isn't worn. That's misleading. They are correct that finishes got thicker; by about '59 they were noticeably thicker, but that really has nothing to do with the smooth topcoat. These new Epis appear to have a rough finish, not like the originals. If it's anything like the reissue Gibson Melody Makers, there's no clearcoat at all.

I can't comment on Reranch's instructions for enhancing the grain and I don't know how different their finishes are from the original, but more than any other site, they are responsible for spreading the lie about the origin of the TV finish.

[4stringer77]

I hear ya Dave. The Epi finishes look like barn board compared to a Fifties finish. Curtis Novak thinks they were never yellow to begin with at all but more of an off white like Fender Blonde.
http://curtisnovak.com/vintage/TV-Yellow/
Someone on the My Les Paul Forum said they were in a room with 10 limed mahogany finished Gibsons and the only common denominator was they were all different. I think the color on the custom shop Les Paul from the E-Bay link I posted is a real beaut and I'm hoping I can get similar results from a custom build.

[dadagoboi]

oops

[Highlander]

been years since I've thought of "Old Yeller"

Ditto... but it sprang straight to mind when this hoary old subject raised its head again... (old yellow smiley)

[Dave W]

I hear ya Dave. The Epi finishes look like barn board compared to a Fifties finish. Curtis Novak thinks they were never yellow to begin with at all but more of an off white like Fender Blonde.
http://curtisnovak.com/vintage/TV-Yellow/
Someone on the My Les Paul Forum said they were in a room with 10 limed mahogany finished Gibsons and the only common denominator was they were all different. I think the color on the custom shop Les Paul from the E-Bay link I posted is a real beaut and I'm hoping I can get similar results from a custom build.

Curtis Novak is right, the early ones were very close to Fender Blonde, having a little yellower cast on mahogany than Fender's finish on ash. And because it was semi-transparent, the slightly different shades of mahogany affected it. The top right pic, and the left hand pic under "These next 2 pictures show a close up of the grain" are both true original looking colors, at least on my monitor.

Of course the yellowing of the clearcoat under different conditions accounts for a lot of the variations we see 50+ years later. And he's right that the TV Yellow Gibson uses today is not like the originals.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Dammit Dave! Don't go ruinin' all this here guitar talk with stupid things like facts! 

[uwe]

Dave is to guitar lore what Darwin is to creationists, sigh. He'll burn in some private hell with little devils dancing around him singing "flames do not influence pain!".  

[Dave W]

You try to provoke me and then you disappear for a few days. Either you're slipping or you have a really important case.

[uwe]

Busy and a lawyers meeting in Warsaw and then Edith and I stayed there for a few days, only returned yesterday night. Man, how that city was ravaged by my dear ancestors, barbarian cruelty even for Nazi standards. You wouldn't believe that in late 1944 with the Reich's enemies standing at every door, anyone sane would be devoting military resources badly needed anywhere else for three months to blow up a city that has already capitulated and is devastated as is just to eradicate it off the face of the earth, make sure it looks even worse than German bombed cities and take senseless and shameful revenge for an uprising with the Red Army waiting across the river - there was absolutely no military value to razing Warsaw to the ground and the war was already irrevocably lost for everyone plain to see. Edith said: "You don't even want to be heard speaking German here, you feel so awful about it." That said, the people of Warsaw were nothing but kind to us, gut-churning memories or not.

But back I am!!!

[exiledarchangel]

That said, the people of Warsaw were nothing but kind to us, gut-churning memories or not.

Well most people with an average IQ knows that not all germans were nazis, on the contrary they were the minority. Germany was the country that suffered most (and is still suffering) from that guy from Austria and his jolly fellowship.

But back I am!!!

And you're calling that good news?

[Highlander]

Could be worse, could be me...

Things may come and things may go but litigation goes on forever, if the lawyers can get away with the charges...

[uwe]

Well most people with an average IQ knows that not all germans were nazis, on the contrary they were the minority. Germany was the country that suffered most (and is still suffering) from that guy from Austria and his jolly fellowship.

And you're calling that good news?

No, not all were Nazis, but I'm sure there were non-Nazis who loved their children blowing up those Warsaw blocks too. If they had all been evil Nazis and nothing else, it would be much easier to put it aside as a collective madness.

There was TV sequel recently aired on German TV called "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" (Our Mothers, Our Fathers) and it is the story of five German twens, none of them evil or a Nazi, they are friends, but as the war progresses everyone of them - the jew who escapes a concentration camp and joins Polish resistance excepted -becomes guilty:

-  The chivalrous role model officer shots a Russian prisoner (a Kommissar), not willingly, but he does it when ordered with a heavy heart (he later on deserts and ends up court-martialed and demoted in a penalty battalion).

- His brother, the unsoldierly pacificist turns into an impassive cynic and participates unflinchingly in reprisals against Russian and Polish peasants (he's the one who says at the beginning of the mini series "This war won't be over soon and it will bring out the worst in all of us."), in the end he commits suicide by charging a Russian position.



- The idealistic nurse rats on a Ukranian co-nurse with Jewish roots without really thinking about it, feeling guilty she ends up caring for Russian wounded once her hospital has been overrun while her other Ukranian co-nurses are shot by the Red Army as "collaborators".

- The other girl protects her jewish friend but at the price of becoming the mistress of a Nazi who also supports her career as a singer, she ends up as a troop entertainer until she makes some defeatist remarks and is imprisoned by the Gestapo and eventually shot a few weeks before the war ends ("You didn't think we would forget you, did you?").

- And the Jewish guy survives it all, marvelling how a world of civilisation disintegrates before his eyes and losing all faith in man.

The mini series spurred some good discussion in Germany - it was different from anything else before it in its portrayal of inherently decent people doing the vilest things (and not enjoying themselves while doing them) where before a lot of Third Reich movies had been black and white - evil Nazis and good non-Nazis.

[patman]

People are like dogs....any individual one could be your best friend, but let a bunch of them get together, and LOOK OUT.

[hieronymous]

Finally saw one of these! And I must say, I was not impressed. At first, I thought it was really dusty - then picked it up and saw that it was finished like that:



Sorry I couldn't take any other pics - was trying to be under the radar - the front looked better, you could just see normal looking grain, but there were several spots visible like this.

I found a couple of the guitars - the SG was finished with a more opaque, even finish, more like I expected, but the Firebird was like the EB-3. Any thoughts? I must say, I'm kind of glad since it killed my G.A.S. for this one!

[4stringer77]

Ouch, those bald spots make the seam in the body all the more visible. You get what you pay for I guess.