Vanilla Fudge

[uwe]

Make no mistake: To young DP those guys were gods. As they themselves said: "We wanted to be the English Vanilla Fudge, outfudge the Fudge so to say, ... I don't think we ever did ...". But they were extremely chuffed when they met VF on one of their early DP tours there (Mark I line up).

When Tony Ashton and Jon Lord staged their First of the Big Bands project in London for a one-off concert in the mid-seventies, Carmine got to play along Ian Paice and the two had an ectremely entertaining drum "battle", actually it was more of an engaged percussive conversation. They are not that far apart stylistically, but different enough that you can easily tell them apart.

Mothers Army, that thinking man's hard rock project that lasted three albums, but never toured, and featured Carmine, Daisley, Turner and Watson (the guy at Nightranger without the whammy bar!  ), has some nice drumming of his too.

[westen44]

Original lineup...

Thanks, I looked it up but finally gave up. 

[westen44]

Back in the day already. Their concept of slowed down grooves, lava-thick instrumentation and extended jams (emulated by bands such as Iron Butterfly, Bloodrock, Grand Funk Railroad) wore thin with rock critics pretty quickly - The Velvet Underground they weren't even if they probably sold more records and could deliver better live. Vanilla Fudge suffered for "only playing covers" and not having a "charismatic frontman".

Not having a frontman and only playing covers were definitely flaws.  There were lesser bands out there without those flaws.  Also, their second album was a very bad idea and they had some radically serious management problems.  On the other hand, just the song "You Keep Me Hanging On," obviously their most well-known song was listened to in awe by the psychedelic crowd.  Not only was the music itself great, but the vocals were also very good.  The song seems to be better suited as a male singing about a female, in my opinion.  The mental picture of unrequited love is vivid.  It comes across as much more convincing than the Supremes version which was a big hit in its own right, though. 

[Dave W]

I couldn't get all the way through that Shotgun video. Junior Walker's is far superior, IMHO.

[uwe]

Not having a frontman and only playing covers were definitely flaws.  There were lesser bands out there without those flaws.  Also, their second album was a very bad idea and they had some radically serious management problems.  On the other hand, just the song "You Keep Me Hanging On," obviously their most well-known song was listened to in awe by the psychedelic crowd.  Not only was the music itself great, but the vocals were also very good.  The song seems to be better suited as a male singing about a female, in my opinion.  The mental picture of unrequited love is vivid.  It comes across as much more convincing than the Supremes version which was a big hit in its own right, though.  

I'm a convert already! YKMHO in the VF version is unrivaled. I like Motown and The Supremes and unashamedly play Upsidedown in our corporate band, but we all know that little Diana got the job as lead singer with The Supremes because her voice was less emotional and raw than that of most female Motown singers, she sounded like a white girl and could look non-threateningly black too. Anything to get on white radio.

Not that VF were exactly "unexpressive" in their visual presentation!  



And I bet no one except Ken and me know these guys here, forgotten NWOBHMsters with their cover of a cover ...

[uwe]

I couldn't get all the way through that Shotgun video. Junior Walker's is far superior, IMHO.

Can't you ever surprise, Dave? 

[Dave W]

Can't you ever surprise, Dave? 

Guess not. 

Anyway, here's my favorite version of You Keep Me Hanging On.

I wonder if women still throw their panties at TJ.

[OldManC]

I wonder if women still throw their panties at TJ.

I've heard they do, but they look more like Boy Scout tents these days.

[Hörnisse]

I couldn't get all the way through that Shotgun video. Junior Walker's is far superior, IMHO.

I always loved Walker's solo @ 2:56 mark on this one.

[westen44]

I'm a convert already! YKMHO in the VF version is unrivaled. I like Motown and The Supremes and unashamedly play Upsidedown in our corporate band, but we all know that little Diana got the job as lead singer with The Supremes because her voice was less emotional and raw than that of most female Motown singers, she sounded like a white girl and could look non-threateningly black too. Anything to get on white radio.

Not that VF were exactly "unexpressive" in their visual presentation!  



And I bet no one except Ken and me know these guys here, forgotten NWOBHMsters with their cover of a cover ...

As I've already said,  Carmine Appice's drumming on "Shotgun" is phenomenal.  So, is Tim Bogert's bass playing, of course.  That rhythm section, although maybe not so much acknowledged by the general public, was one of the best, IMO.  Of course, I really do like Jr. Walker and the Allstars and the Supremes, too.  It's all great music.  I think I may have heard of Nightwing, but I've never heard any of their music, to my knowledge. 

At around 3:00, Tim Bogert starts trading licks with Jeff Beck. 

[uwe]

Bogert and Appice not an acknowledged rhythm section - huh? That's like saying Lennon/McCartney are not an acknowledged songwriting team.  I cannot think of one without the other, it's like pepper and salt to me. I don't even know the names of the other players in the bands they went through, VA, Cactus and BBA ... Ok, in the last one the guitarist was Eric Clapton, but other than that?

They were an iconic rhythm section in my book, playing- and image wise. Probably the first iconic one, even ahead of Baker and Bruce.

In terms of stadium rock of course. You know how I never grew out of that.

[uwe]

Guess not. 

Anyway, here's my favorite version of You Keep Me Hanging On.

I wonder if women still throw their panties at TJ.

I would throw my panties at him for this. In adoration.

[gweimer]

One of my memorable concerts was The Jeff Beck Group.  It was the one line-up that never recorded.  We got a real treat, because we didn't know who the band was when we got there.  The bass amps had CACTUS stamped all over them.  The band was - Jeff Beck, Max Middleton, Tim Bogert, Carmine Appice and Kim Milford.  It was about a year later that BBA emerged.  It was a great show, with Argent as a bonus opener.

[westen44]

Bogert and Appice not an acknowledged rhythm section - huh? That's like saying Lennon/McCartney are not an acknowledged songwriting team.  I cannot think of one without the other, it's like pepper and salt to me. I don't even know the names of the other players in the bands they went through, VA, Cactus and BBA ... Ok, in the last one the guitarist was Eric Clapton, but other than that?

They were an iconic rhythm section in my book, playing- and image wise. Probably the first iconic one, even ahead of Baker and Bruce.

In terms of stadium rock of course. You know how I never grew out of that.

I think the interview in which Tim Bogert talks about the recognition or lack of recognition must be in a magazine I have somewhere.  In that one, he just seems grateful that people were still giving him any recognition.  But from reading this interview down below, you can see that he considered his active career over because of the age factor at age 35.  This is in contrast to Carmine Appice who he calls a workaholic.  His comments on Jeff Beck and John Paul Jones are interesting. 


http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2011/09/25/interview-cactus-and-vanilla-fudge-bass-player-tim-bogert

[gweimer]

The Billy Sheehan bass clinic I went to, Sheehan talked about being really nervous when Tim Bogert showed up at a clinic Sheehan did previously.  He was stumbling over describing a technique, and Bogert just answered from the crowd, "It's called 'raking'"