New EB2

[clankenstein]

yes thats curious.you think they would try the new pickups and bridges on lots of  different bodies until they came up with combinations that rocked.

[uwe]

Yes, that same Fender. Yes, I've criticized them for all the different versions. But you're missing the point (deliberately, I'm sure): Fender doesn't put the same pickup and hardware in every bass, or even every bass of the same type. E.g., most of those different Ps have different pickups, some have different control circuits, etc. It's oversaturation, but it's not done to use up spare parts in the parts bin.

Gibson won't even use their own new pickups or the Babicz bridge. Same old tired TB Plus and three-point on almost everything.

I forgive them that they are not immediately putting their newest pup on another model, but prefer to wait. Today's TB Plus is not your dad's TB Plus, they have finetuned and raised output of it over decades (I played my Amercan Standard Jazz and my pimped spalted wood Epi Explorer with the TB Plus goldies yesterday, the Epi was about three times as loud as the Jazz and roared where the Fender whispered, not an entirely fair comparison considering what a Jazz Bass is aimed to do, I know). It's a good pick-up and it's theirs, hardly any other pup sounds like it, why change? When they used Seymour Duncans on the Ripper II and the Novoselic RD, I saw no one in this forum rushing out to buy those models (the Ripper was faithful to the original in all other aspects). The (new) Gibson grapes are always too sour for most people here.

And the three point bridge is after 40 years of use a Gibson trademark look on basses, much like the Ric bridge which isn't perfect either, but belongs to that bass. I like the three point, it is stable, idiosyncratic, good handrest, doesn't cover up the bass surface like base mounted bridges do, yet does not lack sustain or string to saddle pressure, no fidgety allen wrenches, just a (very) mansize and a regular size screwdriver is all you need. And I have intonated and set up several 100 of them and continue to - as a no fret buzz, but medium-low action obsessive I  just don't have issues with them.

[dadagoboi]

medium-low action obsessive

Your "medium-low action obsessive" is my "ain't even close".

[uwe]

I find that tone suffers if action is too low even if buzz-free. I'm not a hard player (anymore), but I don't want any buzz at all unless I play hilariously hard. A lot of instruction videos of bassists I see I find the sound too buzzy, nearly all slappers, Guy Pratt, Billy Sheehan, JAE's buzz is horrid to me.  As I try to avoid it, it inhibits my playing if a set up is too low. Basses in shops are generally either set up too low or not set up at all. 3 to 4 mm at the 12th fret is about as low as I go. Lower feels weird to me. I don't even like buzz if I can't hear it in a loudly amplified situation, I still feel it through my hands!

[nofi]

to see string marks on pickup covers looks weird to me. how can anyone play like that.

[gearHed289]

I find the TB Plus the best mass-produced non-Fender sounding passive pup in the world, honest.  They are modern growl monsters with just enough presence and low bass to not sound too vintage.

Yeah, I love those things. They work great for the way I play and the sound I want - pick, fingerstyle, and even slap. Some day I'll have a Ric with maho wings, a pair of TB+, and a toaster at the neck. 

I find that tone suffers if action is too low even if buzz-free. I'm not a hard player (anymore), but I don't want any buzz at all unless I play hilariously hard.

I DO play very hard, and I agree tone suffers from too low action. For me anyway.

to see string marks on pickup covers looks weird to me. how can anyone play like that.

I see that a lot. On MY basses, medium action and all. 

[Dave W]

... It's a good pick-up and it's theirs, hardly any other pup sounds like it, why change? When they used Seymour Duncans on the Ripper II and the Novoselic RD, I saw no one in this forum rushing out to buy those models (the Ripper was faithful to the original in all other aspects). The (new) Gibson grapes are always too sour for most people here.

And the three point bridge is after 40 years of use a Gibson trademark look on basses, much like the Ric bridge which isn't perfect either, but belongs to that bass. I like the three point, it is stable, idiosyncratic, good handrest, doesn't cover up the bass surface like base mounted bridges do, yet does not lack sustain or string to saddle pressure, no fidgety allen wrenches, just a (very) mansize and a regular size screwdriver is all you need. And I have intonated and set up several 100 of them and continue to - as a no fret buzz, but medium-low action obsessive I  just don't have issues with them.

I'm not suggesting they change it, just don't put the exact same pickup in (almost) every new bass you put out. and i don't think it's fair to point to the Ripper II or the Novoselic RD; the pickups aren't the reason those haven't sold well.

Not much more needs to be said about the three-point. It may be a trademark but IMHO not one to be proud of.

[Granny Gremlin]

i don't think it's fair to point to the Ripper II or the Novoselic RD; the pickups aren't the reason those haven't sold well.

WRT the RD, yeah, kinda IMO.  Though he did have a Standard, both he (and later Grohl, though it was a 6 banger he was rocking) used the Artist versions a lot of the time. In that light, it is actually a bad product, and not even close to being as advertised since Novoselic doesn't use it (and currently isn't playing in a band.... at that that gig with McCartney he was using a vintage Standard not the Sig bass for chrissakes!!!).  Anyway, they already reissued (modern interpretations of) the pups for the G3, why couldn't they have put those in the RD - the only difference with the vintage ones was the cover colour anyway - vs the same/similar J pups you find on any non-bottom-of-the-barrel Fender copy?

The RD, especially the Artist, has a very religious following (even despite Nirvana's mild help).  A local band that just got signed to Geffen uses them, for example, and demand for vintage RD Artists has been constant on ebay since before I bought mine (they now sell consistently for over 1.5K vs closer to 1K when I bought mine a few years ago; the bound CMT ones going for even more than that; the demand is undeniably there).

The Ripper has a following, but not as dedicated (i.e. the RD Artist is a main / exclusive player for many of it's fans, kinda like TBirds, vs the Ripper which tends to just be another horse in the stable).  But with the Ripper (even more so than with the RD,  Standard or Artist) the pups are one of the things that fans of the vintage instrument really love; a standout feature.  

[stiles72]

I find that tone suffers if action is too low even if buzz-free. I'm not a hard player (anymore), but I don't want any buzz at all unless I play hilariously hard. A lot of instruction videos of bassists I see I find the sound too buzzy, nearly all slappers, Guy Pratt, Billy Sheehan, JAE's buzz is horrid to me.  As I try to avoid it, it inhibits my playing if a set up is too low. Basses in shops are generally either set up too low or not set up at all. 3 to 4 mm at the 12th fret is about as low as I go. Lower feels weird to me. I don't even like buzz if I can't hear it in a loudly amplified situation, I still feel it through my hands!

I'm with you on that. I also notice with my 3-Point equipped birds,  that the acoustic (unplugged) tone of the bass changes as the action is adjusted by raising and lowering the bridge. With the action low and more of the post length screwed into the body, the brighter and tighter it sounds. With the action set to what I consider "medium" (most people probably consider higher than average) and more of the posts unscrewed, there comes a sweet spot where the low end opens up a bit more and the bass sounds much more rich and full. I tend to set my bridges based on where I find that acoustic  sweet spot, rather than how high or low the action is-  unless of course there is any kind of fret buzz. 

[dadagoboi]

I'm with you on that. I also notice with my 3-Point equipped birds,  that the acoustic (unplugged) tone of the bass changes as the action is adjusted by raising and lowering the bridge. With the action low and more of the post length screwed into the body, the brighter and tighter it sounds. With the action set to what I consider "medium" (most people probably consider higher than average) and more of the posts unscrewed, there comes a sweet spot where the low end opens up a bit more and the bass sounds much more rich and full. I tend to set my bridges based on where I find that acoustic  sweet spot, rather than how high or low the action is-  unless of course there is any kind of fret buzz. 

What you describe has MUCH more to do with the pickup height relative to the strings than the actual string height.  And it occurs the same way for any bass regardless of bridge.

The greater the distance the strings are from the pickups the less treble response you'll get.  It's simple physics, lower notes have more energy, that's why the E side of pickups are set farther away from the strings than the E side to get an even response across all strings.  When you raise your action you're not increasing bass response, you're reducing treble. 

Next time get the action to where you like it and then adjust the pickups for your sound preference.  With properly dressed frets, correct neck relief and the right pickup height it's possible to get low action, no fret buzz and the sound you like. 

[stiles72]

True - the distance between the pickup and the string affects the tone as you describe when you are going through an amp. But I'm referring to the unplugged acoustic resonance of the instrument. Unplugged, just sitting around the house - I notice quite a difference in the sound I get out of the bass depending on how the bridge is set.

[uwe]

That's the JAE effect. His action was so low by the time he was playing the Alembics and Status Buzzards, his sound was basically dead, just hugely overamplified and with the graphite construction still providing sustain enough (I have a one-piece graphite Status Stealth - the sustain on these is basically endless, so intense you have to adjust your playing to it, that bass is just too much "there" for most music I play, it makes all other instruments in the band sound backgroundish). Of course JAE still sounded impressive, but it must have felt horrible playing these things with the strings hitting all over.

Getting the pup real close to the strings doesn't work on all basses. Some pups will begin to sound all middish, other's magnetic field starts interfering with the high register notes, giving them weird "doubling" effects and ghost harmonics. Ironically, with TB Plus pups you can get so close that the strings can barely still swing without these ill effects.

[exiledarchangel]

Getting the pup real close to the strings doesn't work on all basses. Some pups will begin to sound all middish, other's magnetic field starts interfering with the high register notes, giving them weird "doubling" effects and ghost harmonics. Ironically, with TB Plus pups you can get so close that the strings can barely still swing without these ill effects.

Most pickups that are using ceramic or alnico charged blades/poles work like that, their magnetic pull isn't as strong as pickups that are using magnets as blades/poles and so you can adjust em closer.

[uwe]

Ah, something learned! Always wondered what the ceramic thingy was good for.

[Dave W]

Ah, something learned! Always wondered what the ceramic thingy was good for.

He's not talking about ceramic magnets in general. He's talking about steel polepieces or blades with the magnet beneath (alnico or ceramic) vs. polepieces or blades that are actually magnets. The magnetic fields are different.