Acoustic bass questions

[uwe]

The now deeleted Zenith is chambered and not really an acoustic at all.

One general tip: Use a stringholder mounted to the side of the body, don't mount a string holding bridge to the body where it will hamper volume (due to additional bracing or a thicker top then needed) or lift  a thinner, unbraced top higher over time, causing action issues.

[Granny Gremlin]

Yeah, I never understood the insistence to use 6 banger dreadnaught style bridges on ABGs; why not eliminate half of your problems by using a trapeze tailpeice like jazz box acoustics or thinline/semihollow electrics?....  and for that matter, why aren't there any archtop, f hole ABGs (and I don't mean semihollows or thinline electrics; full size acoustic instruments, but still a guitar vs upright)?

[patman]

There used to be a takamine like that...

[rahock]

Yeah, I never understood the insistence to use 6 banger dreadnaught style bridges on ABGs; why not eliminate half of your problems by using a trapeze tailpeice like jazz box acoustics or thinline/semihollow electrics?....  and for that matter, why aren't there any archtop, f hole ABGs (and I don't mean semihollows or thinline electrics; full size acoustic instruments, but still a guitar vs upright)?

There is an arch top f hole ABG out there, but like every jack ass who shoots his mouth off, I can't freakin' remember who made them .
I've only seen pictures of them , and there was even one model with a resonator like a Dobro. The story was, the wood arch top didn't project very well and the resonator projected a bit better but sounded like crap and was very fragile.
Rick

[nofi]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Takamine-TB10-Fretless-Acoustic-Electric-Bass-Guitar-/400401722664?pt=Guitar&hash=item5d39cd6d28

i think this is a new reissue bass. the old ones had a scroll headstock i believe.

[Dave W]

True archtop guitars are notoriously short on fundamental, I can't imagine an archtop bass guitar that could compete with the flattops.

[rahock]

WOW, that Takamine comes with a pretty hefty price tag . I thought Takamines were always on the more reasonably priced end of the equation.
Anyway,  they are not the manufacturer of the arch top I was thinking of , so there must be more out there than I thought. I heard a sound clip of the resonator ABG and it sounded like crap, of course that's not like hearing one live, but it had a very tin like sound and no real bottom. Just what you want, a lot of projection and a tone that has no bass. Great idea .
Rick

[nofi]

i agree. the resonator seems like a good idea but has zero bass.

[rahock]

i agree. the resonator seems like a good idea but has zero bass.

Where was that thing posted . Was it that strange short lived ABG forum that came and went real quick.
Rick

[nofi]

i saw a video demo somewhere on line. playing with a pick didn't help the tone much.

[Granny Gremlin]

True archtop guitars are notoriously short on fundamental, I can't imagine an archtop bass guitar that could compete with the flattops.

That depends on body size; those old jazz (blues) boxes are tiny.  In theory, the closer to a sphere (arched top and back) of large enough size for the wave to form (1/8th wavelength of 40 Hz is still pretty big) it would perform vastly better than a flat top as regards fundamental resonance/projection).  Seeing as that's not easily done (though some guitarons, many with arched backs, come close), yeah, often flat top is the better way to go considering cost.  Put arched top and back on something of Earthwood size and tell me it doesn't sound huge.

Anyway, the archtop comment was more about a hole I saw in the current market offerings, a stream of consciousness tangent from the bridge discussion.  Though I do believe (as long as the market weren't saturated, which it certainly isn't, but instrument makers tend to the domino effect) they would sell, middish, jazz/blues vibe or no. Especially because you could, due to it 'working' aesthetically, also put a real pickup in it without it being weird (a la proper jazz guitars) vs a cheap (in every sense of the word) piezo system with the same old tired Fishman preamp.

The bridge thing is something I actually think is a very simple improvement that could make a budget ABGs (even/especially flat tops) exponentially better (if they leveraged it to make the top better acoustically - thinner, not overbraced etc), and the much more important point.

[Granny Gremlin]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Takamine-TB10-Fretless-Acoustic-Electric-Bass-Guitar-/400401722664?pt=Guitar&hash=item5d39cd6d28

i think this is a new reissue bass. the old ones had a scroll headstock i believe.

Pretty sexy.  But damn that price (and lack of frets).

[drbassman]

In the end, an upright is the only way to go.  Gonna have to try one someday.

[patman]

Acoustically, resonator instruments have no bass response...it's a part of the dobro's old time "charm".  With amplification...they can sound good as a bass.  I heard Les Claypool play one recently for 4 or 5 songs, and it actually sounded pretty good in a big auditorium.

Upright is the way to go...huge scale length and large sound chamber are what make the sound...even then (I used to play upright professionally-don't even own one now-but I'm going to fix that someday real soon).  I used to play in a jazz trio in a restaurant every Friday and Saturday (for maybe 2 years)...I even used an amp for a quiet trio gig-it allows you to play with more finesse.

The old guys that drove a big band with an un-amplified string bass had to play with super high action, and develop super-human strength. It amazes me that they could do this.

Ilan may chime in here with what he knows...I'm pretty sure he knows more about this than I will ever know. I was always pretty much what I call a "street" player.

[Dave W]

That depends on body size; those old jazz (blues) boxes are tiny.  In theory, the closer to a sphere (arched top and back) of large enough size for the wave to form (1/8th wavelength of 40 Hz is still pretty big) it would perform vastly better than a flat top as regards fundamental resonance/projection).  Seeing as that's not easily done (though some guitarons, many with arched backs, come close), yeah, often flat top is the better way to go considering cost.  Put arched top and back on something of Earthwood size and tell me it doesn't sound huge.

....

I have no idea what tiny jazz boxes you're talking about, but compare an acoustic archtop guitar to a flattop of the same size and the flattop will easy have more fundamental. Theory be damned. The thicker top more than negates any advantage of the arch. You would need a lot more air to make it work. Turn an Earthwood into an archtop and you'd strangle it.