New Guild Starfire with singe DS-style pickyp?!?

[saltymonkey]

I just watched a Premiere Guitar Namm video on the new Guilds. The Starfire bass was not specifically mentioned but in describing how these models (Newark St Collection) were brought back to life the Fender rep said that original pick ups were sent to the factory in Korea to be replicated using the same materials and not fixed or updated in any way. There is hope. Here's the link for anyone interested:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Video/20130126/2112/NAMM_13_Guild_Guitarss_100_Polara_Starfire_IV_X_175B_Manhattan_A_150B_Savoy_Demos.aspx

[gweimer]

I love the sound of some of the big hollow body basses, but I am just not comfortable with the feel of them.  The Epi Casady bass I used briefly sounded nice, but always dug into my arm.  Now, if they did these again, I'd be really tempted.

[Mungi]

My understanding is that the Bi-sonic was a Guild design made for them by Hagstrom, rather than an existing Hagstrom pickup that Guild bought. I could be wrong, though. In any case, it's not rocket science.

No, the bisonic is an original Hagström design. Hagström had them on their Coronado bass introduced in -63. Guild started buying them in -65 for the SF. Hagström also had a six string version of it, for bass, not guitar!!! The six-string is extremely rare. I have only seen one for sale ever here in Sweden. Asking price was about 10.000 usd. I got the 4-string version, which is also very rare. Truly amazing sound!

[Mungi]

Close-up of the six-string bisonic:

[Highlander]

Fascinating...

I'm totally unfamiliar with these items... is that a selector switch between the pups of a potentiometer to slide between the pair...?

[Mungi]

Fascinating...

I'm totally unfamiliar with these items... is that a selector switch between the pups of a potentiometer to slide between the pair...?

No, slide is the volume. The four buttons are 1 & 2 - pickup selectors, and 3 & 4 - tone selectors. Hagström used to make accordions but after Elvis there was no market so the started making guitars instead. In their first design they used a lot of details from accordions, like those buttons. The even made guitars with necks completely covered in mother-of-pearl - they had so much in stock for the accordions. Guess they figured they might as well slap it on a guitar rather than letting it sit the warehouse.

I really hope this new bisonic is made to the original specs, but I doubt it. Rumour says it is not a true replica but a "modern remake" or something like that. The original uses unusually thin thread which is not at all common these days (darkstars have thicker gauge). But if the bobbin and all the hardware is the same one could always have them re-wound.

[Dave W]

Mungi, thanks for clearing that up.

I just watched a Premiere Guitar Namm video on the new Guilds. The Starfire bass was not specifically mentioned but in describing how these models (Newark St Collection) were brought back to life the Fender rep said that original pick ups were sent to the factory in Korea to be replicated using the same materials and not fixed or updated in any way. There is hope. Here's the link for anyone interested:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Video/20130126/2112/NAMM_13_Guild_Guitarss_100_Polara_Starfire_IV_X_175B_Manhattan_A_150B_Savoy_Demos.aspx

Well, then, I expect them to be like the originals.

[Mungi]

I still have doubts about the pickup. First of all, I think the promo video does not sound close enough to an original bisonic, even though there are some similarities. Like me, they play through a Bassman. I am familliar with the combo Bassman+bisonic. I don't think it has to do with the recording. That does not color the sound enough to make it unrecognizable. It might be the strings. I have had rounds on my Guild, but there are rounds and there are rounds...

But the thing that feeds my doubts the most is how they promote it. If I were in charge of the promotion at Guild, I would do anything to clear away any doubts. They should know very well people have doubts, after all, the standard of the industry is not to make authentic remakes but to make "modern interpretations". Buying a new Fender Stratocaster is not the same as buying the guitar Hendrix played, and Gibson can't even make a descent PAF or mudbucker these days. So, if it is a genuine copy of the original, Guild should be very interested in letting everybody know precisely that. I would state loud and clear it is a genuine copy, I would have promotion pictures of the pickup out of the bass, and I would give details such as kOhm, magnet type and so on. And I would also state clearly it is a copy of the Hagström bisonic and not a copy of the Darkstar. After all, what many, perhaps most, people like about the SF is not the bass itself but the pickup. The post-69 Guild humbucker version does not have the same vintage value, and it is not associated with Casady, Lesh and Alembic.

Also, seeing as Fender owns Guild, if it is the genuine thing, I would also make a Fender Berry Oakley Sig Tractor bass and launch it at the same time as the SF.

So, the question is, are the people at Guild really this bad a promotion? Or do they not have the genuine thing to promote?

That said, I sooooooooo much hope this is the genuine thing. It would be the best news ever. Only a genuine remake of the Gibson LP Triumph could come close. (Not that I need any of those two seeing as I have vintage ones already).

[4stringer77]

It's also strange that Hagstrom, which is still in business, doesn't make the bi-sonic for themselves. If you're looking for spot on vintage, I tend to believe no reissue, no matter how lovingly made, can ever truly capture a vintage instrument exactly.

[vates]

Old (original) Hagström "died" in 1983. New Hagstroms are branded Chinese products since 2004. No legacy exists.

[ilan]

Do Chinese Hagströms have an umlaut?

[saltymonkey]

Do Chinese Hagströms have an umlaut?

Yes but it's not made as well.

[vates]

Apparently, they haven't. Fixed my message.

[Mungi]

It's also strange that Hagstrom, which is still in business, doesn't make the bi-sonic for themselves. If you're looking for spot on vintage, I tend to believe no reissue, no matter how lovingly made, can ever truly capture a vintage instrument exactly.

Actually, the new Hagström guitars and basses have little to do with Hagström. The Swedish company Hagström still exists but the brand name Hagström is used under license by the Canadian company American Music & Sound. But I agree, it is strange that they don't make the bisonic themselves. American Music & Sound does make all pickups and they have modeled them after the original Hagström pickups. The could even have but it in the Viking bass, since they changed the original design of that anyhow (it was called Concorde in the 60s - only the guitar was called Viking). It got the exact same body measures as the Guild SF.

The history of Hagström is very interesting. The company is located close to the border to Norway in a small rather remote village called Älvdalen in a province called Dalarna (which is by many Swedes considered to be the essence of "Swedishness"). It was founded in 1921 but it was not until the 50s that they started making guitars, basses and amps. They also had the license for Fender amps in Sweden. It was a family business and just about everybody in the village of Älvdalen worked there. They were very innovative. Among other things they had a patent for a special guitar pickups using local Swedish magnets and of course with their patented H-truss rod the could make "the fastest neck in the world" (their slogan). Some wellknown people have played Hagström, Elvis and Zappa for instance. Noel Redding sometimes played an 8-string bass from Hagström. The also made PAs. ABBA used Hagström PAs on their 1974 world tour.

I got a friend who makes pickups. He has studied both the DS and the bisonic. Recently he re-wound a bisonic from a Hagström Coronado for a bass player from a famous band from Älvdalen. He actually got some NOS bobbins from Hagström to fix the pickup. You can see some info on his facebook: http://www.facebook.com/UrbanPickups

[4stringer77]

I found a couple other aftermarket bi-sonic copies. These NuSonics

http://www.lhnborn.com/page7.htm

and Curtis Novak makes a bi-sonic in mudbucker clothing

http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/EB-BS.shtml

Curtis is rumored to be working on a standard looking replica bi-sonic as well.
So even if the new Guild bi-sonic blows, there's other options. Have to admit some of those other Newark st. guitar models sounded sweet.