Happy Thanksgiving!

[Highlander]

Sounds like fun. What are you researching?

Chindit II (Burma - March to August 1944, but also the training period in India) - my research image file just jumped to 30gb+ yesterday, but will whittle down as I process the new material - I took 2800 pics of war diaries (our WO172 series), many of which are double page shots; some astonishing finds yesterday...
This has been running since '98, pre dad's death, but took a significant upgrade turn about 5 years back, to where it has taken over the lion's share of my spare time, hence the shed "cold-store" and stalled rebuilds - the written files, including about 50 books I've transcribed, most being totally with the magic of OCR, run into millions of words...
I think I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but there have been numerous freight-trains oncoming - I cleared almost a complete series of diaries for the 3rd Indian Infantry Division this week - 2 to go out of 17, some of which are on WWII extra thin paper and approx 3" thick - smallest was about 1/2 inch - not all were useful - some were shockingly filled with details which have largely gone ignored from published records...
It mostly involves (started from) notes dad left and some material that was published before he died, centring around a defeat: "Blackpool" Block - dad was one of the few survivors from 2700 that went in - a massacre, effectively, due to beligerance from [not sorry, FACT] USofA command structure and impossible orders - just check out the 5307th, or GALAHAD as they were coded, to find out your own side of it) just south of the Japanese rearguard near the CAI in northern Burma and Uncle/Vinegar Joe Stilwell - even some of his "own" wanted him dead...
I found a seven page minutes of a very stormy meeting between command yesterday, un-censored - actual language is quite shocking and bullying...
Much of the problem stems from the belief that the "LIMEYS" were slackers, "Yellow" is what General Stilwell termed it - of the 2700 that went in with the 111th Indian Infantry Division, only 118 were left fit for acctive duty - 700+ confirmed dead/permanant MIA, numerous sucumbed to tropical disease; in excess of 300 shells an hour were landing at points, they ran out of food, they ran out of ammo, it was the Monnsoon season and they were surrounded, over-run, and reduced to hand-to-hand combat with troops that committed suicide to blow up wire, allowed there bodies to be "bridges" over it to get in: fanatics...
No one knows how anyone survived...
The commanding officer ordered the execution of his own (non walking) wounded so they would not have to bear the torture that would have come...
Dad should have died: he was wounded three times between 8th and 25th May 1944; shot/grenade/mortar - the BIG 6" Japanese one known as the "Coal-Scuttle" - 21 seconds from sound of launch to impact) and suffered with dysentry and cerebral malaria when flown out...
His own description of being shot...
... In actual fact, our section was not directly attacked, but every night some of us were on patrol, attacking the Jap's in the rear if they attacked the block. It was on one of these that I received my first wound, a bullet, in the fleshy part (if I had any flesh left) of the upper arm. This type of incident is often displayed in Hollywood films with persons being flung backwards by bullets. This is nonsense, unless the bullet was a "shell" which exploded. An ordinary bullet just feels like a pinprick, and to begin with the area is numb; it is only afterwards that the pain begins...

You did ask...

[Dave W]

[Highlander]

I'm nervous about the Ken part...

[westen44]

Chindit II (Burma - March to August 1944, but also the training period in India) - my research image file just jumped to 30gb+ yesterday, but will whittle down as I process the new material - I took 2800 pics of war diaries (our WO172 series), many of which are double page shots; some astonishing finds yesterday...
This has been running since '98, pre dad's death, but took a significant upgrade turn about 5 years back, to where it has taken over the lion's share of my spare time, hence the shed "cold-store" and stalled rebuilds - the written files, including about 50 books I've transcribed, most being totally with the magic of OCR, run into millions of words...
I think I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but there have been numerous freight-trains oncoming - I cleared almost a complete series of diaries for the 3rd Indian Infantry Division this week - 2 to go out of 17, some of which are on WWII extra thin paper and approx 3" thick - smallest was about 1/2 inch - not all were useful - some were shockingly filled with details which have largely gone ignored from published records...
It mostly involves (started from) notes dad left and some material that was published before he died, centring around a defeat: "Blackpool" Block - dad was one of the few survivors from 2700 that went in - a massacre, effectively, due to beligerance from [not sorry, FACT] USofA command structure and impossible orders - just check out the 5307th, or GALAHAD as they were coded, to find out your own side of it) just south of the Japanese rearguard near the CAI in northern Burma and Uncle/Vinegar Joe Stilwell - even some of his "own" wanted him dead...
I found a seven page minutes of a very stormy meeting between command yesterday, un-censored - actual language is quite shocking and bullying...
Much of the problem stems from the belief that the "LIMEYS" were slackers, "Yellow" is what General Stilwell termed it - of the 2700 that went in with the 111th Indian Infantry Division, only 118 were left fit for acctive duty - 700+ confirmed dead/permanant MIA, numerous sucumbed to tropical disease; in excess of 300 shells an hour were landing at points, they ran out of food, they ran out of ammo, it was the Monnsoon season and they were surrounded, over-run, and reduced to hand-to-hand combat with troops that committed suicide to blow up wire, allowed there bodies to be "bridges" over it to get in: fanatics...
No one knows how anyone survived...
The commanding officer ordered the execution of his own (non walking) wounded so they would not have to bear the torture that would have come...
Dad should have died: he was wounded three times between 8th and 25th May 1944; shot/grenade/mortar - the BIG 6" Japanese one known as the "Coal-Scuttle" - 21 seconds from sound of launch to impact) and suffered with dysentry and cerebral malaria when flown out...
His own description of being shot...
... In actual fact, our section was not directly attacked, but every night some of us were on patrol, attacking the Jap's in the rear if they attacked the block. It was on one of these that I received my first wound, a bullet, in the fleshy part (if I had any flesh left) of the upper arm. This type of incident is often displayed in Hollywood films with persons being flung backwards by bullets. This is nonsense, unless the bullet was a "shell" which exploded. An ordinary bullet just feels like a pinprick, and to begin with the area is numb; it is only afterwards that the pain begins...

You did ask...

This sounds super grim and I'm sure the book will be informative and quite interesting as well.  A war, especially one like this one, is really nothing but sheer hell on earth.  Sherman may have been the one to give us the "war is hell" quote.  But I think even he would have been shocked at World War II. 

[drbassman]

Man, I am really late to this party!!!!  I have more than I can say to be thankful for and you all are part of it!  Happy belated Thanksgiving.  Cool story Kenny.  You've inspired me to learn more of the battles my Dad was in.  He was at Pearl when it was attacked and ended up wounded on Saipan afterward.  He didn't like to talk about it, but I'm looking for info in cyberspace anyway.

[westen44]

Man, I am really late to this party!!!!  I have more than I can say to be thankful for and you all are part of it!  Happy belated Thanksgiving.  Cool story Kenny.  You've inspired me to learn more of the battles my Dad was in.  He was at Pearl when it was attacked and ended up wounded on Saipan afterward.  He didn't like to talk about it, but I'm looking for info in cyberspace anyway.

Not wanting to talk about it seems to be a very common characteristic of World War II veterans.  That's why I know next to nothing about what my father did.  Also, through a bizarre turn of events, I've lost a lot of valuable info on it (some of which I hope to eventually find.) 

[patman]

My dad never wanted to talk about it either, although he did a couple of times when he was drinking. He was on Okinawa.

[drbassman]

They really were the greatest generation in many ways. I envy you Kenny, you've got some super insight from your Dad.

[Dave W]

My dad was a tailgunner in the Pacific. He wouldn't talk about it. I didn't realize until I was grown what a high fatality rate there was.

[drbassman]

Yep, the casualties were high in WW II.  I've been reading accounts of the battle on Saipan and I realize now how lucky my Dad was that he was only wounded there.  The only thing he ever said was it was a nearby grenade blast.  Since he was in the artillery, they got pretty close to the rear as they typically were not right on the front lines. 

Saipan was the site of the largest known Banzai charge in the Pacific.  Once the Japanese army was pushed to the north end of the island with their backs to the ocean, they mounted a 3,000 man charge at night and it was awful for both sides according to the accounts I've read.  The US fire power decimated them while the US deaths were high as well.  In the end, the charge failed.  Incredible bravery on both sides.

[Pilgrim]

My dad tried to enlist during WWII but he had lost his right eye in high school and no branch of service would consider him.  I'm not sure I regret that.

[drbassman]

My dad tried to enlist during WWII but he had lost his right eye in high school and no branch of service would consider him.  I'm not sure I regret that.

I know what you mean Al.  I have some regrets that I was unable to pass my draft physical in 1969.  While I could have ended up in Viet Nam, and potentially dead, I do wish I had the chance to experience the military personally instead of as a military brat.

[dadagoboi]

I had all the military experience I wanted, being forced to participate in required ROTC as a freshman and sophomore at a land grant college (University of Florida) from 1964-1965.  Upperclassmen future officers marched future cannon fodder around a drill field 1 hour a week and generally abused us for not giving a shit about their careers.  That and 3 hours of classroom instruction was a 1 credit course.  Had to have hair cut short, neat uniform, etc. and pretend we were interested.

I was drafted in March 1968 (during the Tet Offensive, no less). I rode a bus with around 30 other guys to the induction center that morning.  I declared I was a Homo, a typical tactic used by musicians in Gainesville.  When the shrink told me I couldn't be drafted or enlist, I thanked him.  I was the only passenger on the bus on the trip back.  The next day I drove to Toronto with Jim Helmer to visit another friend who had gone there the previous September to flee the draft.  Had I not been declared 4F I would have refused to be inducted and taken that trip one way.  Jim did after graduating and being drafted the following year.

It's unfortunate we only hear about the glory and justness of war from the survivors.  I've always thought the Vietnam Wall was the greatest and most powerful (anti)war monument.  Adding statues and a proposed visitor center do nothing but dilute its impact IMO.

[drbassman]

I had all the military experience I wanted, being forced to participate in required ROTC as a freshman and sophomore at a land grant college (University of Florida) from 1964-1965.  Upperclassmen future officers marched future cannon fodder around a drill field 1 hour a week and generally abused us for not giving a shit about their careers.  That and 3 hours of classroom instruction was a 1 credit course.  Had to have hair cut short, neat uniform, etc. and pretend we were interested.

I was drafted in March 1968 (during the Tet Offensive, no less). I rode a bus with around 30 other guys to the induction center that morning.  I declared I was a Homo, a typical tactic used by musicians in Gainesville.  When the shrink told me I couldn't be drafted or enlist, I thanked him.  I was the only passenger on the bus on the trip back.  The next day I drove to Toronto with Jim Helmer to visit another friend who had gone there the previous September to flee the draft.  Had I not been declared 4F I would have refused to be inducted and taken that trip one way.  Jim did after graduating and being drafted the following year.

It's unfortunate we only hear about the glory and justness of war from the survivors.  I've always thought the Vietnam Wall was the greatest and most powerful (anti)war monument.  Adding statues and a proposed visitor center do nothing but dilute its impact IMO.

I hear ya Carlo.  While I didn't believe in the draft, or the war, as a teenager (I am a Kent State graduate, 2 degrees), I would have gone because my family didn't support any other options.  War is typically stupid and/or misguided, but I do believe in the strongest defense.  It's a vicious world out there and no one is going to protect us.

[Pilgrim]

I know what you mean Al.  I have some regrets that I was unable to pass my draft physical in 1969.  While I could have ended up in Viet Nam, and potentially dead, I do wish I had the chance to experience the military personally instead of as a military brat.

Bill, by the time I came up for the draft I had a six-inch steel plate in my left leg from a motorcycle wreck when I was 16, and I also turned up with a high draft number.  The number kept me from having to report, and the plate and leg damage would have kept me from serving.  

To be bluntly honest, I was glad about it, and not only from the war aspect.  I have always been convinced that I would make a lousy soldier - I'm much too strong-headed and independent, and I don't think there is anything about serving that would have been a pleasant experience for me.  Both I and the armed forces are fortunate that I was not called upon to serve.  This is also why I was a bad fit at Texas A&M, which in many ways is still operated like a military school.

One of my two best friends in the world retired a few years ago from an Army career.  He really didn't have much of a career direction so he joined the Army and went career.  He is a fantastic guy, very good with people, quite smart, but not one of those who volunteers for leadership roles.  He did very well in his Army career and retired as a Senior Sergeant; his last gig was running the embassy in Abu Dhabi.  He's one of those folks who was a much better fit than I ever could have been, and I respect him for his career choice.  He tells me he had to make enough decisions, and he's happy driving a bus in his hometown today.  He gets to interact with all the college students and generally have a pleasant day most of the time.  He's in Pullman (Go, Cougs!) and I spoke with him last night - it was his 63rd birthday.