Canadian WWII Aircraft for sale

Pilgrim · November 20, 2012, 06:26:34 AM

I thought I should just start this thread with the required WWII digression instead of putting an inconveniently relevant topic up first. Anyone know about the Hawker Hurricane?

http://www.hagerty.com/classic-car-articles-resources/HowTo/Valuation-Blog/All-articles/2012/11/12/Bulletproof-provenance-1942-Hawker-Hurricane-Mk-Iia?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=Hagerty%20Weekly%20News%2011-19-2012

godofthunder · November 20, 2012, 09:20:59 AM

Well I know what most folks do I guess, I read many a book on the subject and built models of it many times. One of my favorite aircraft, Reliable, sturdy. Not as fast as the Spit or as graceful but certainly a capable aircraft and beautiful in it's own way. A transitional aircraft in construction and virtually obsolete at the start of the war. It performed many duties and was easy to modify for various armament configurations. If I had 3 million I'd be all over that !

TBird1958 · November 20, 2012, 10:48:05 AM

It's amazing what you can do with plywood and dope!

Very cool, it's not a Spit so I like it, kinda the Gibson bass of fighters

Aussie Mark · November 20, 2012, 03:04:38 PM

Quote from: Pilgrim on November 20, 2012, 06:26:34 AM
I thought I should just start this thread with the required WWII digression instead of putting an inconveniently relevant topic up first.

In that case, to be totally accurate to the way most threads go here, you should add "with anal sex references" to the thread title :-)

TBird1958 · November 20, 2012, 03:50:01 PM

You guys!

Big_Stu · November 20, 2012, 04:35:51 PM

Quote from: godofthunder on November 20, 2012, 09:20:59 AM
It performed many duties and was easy to modify for various armament configurations. If I had 3 million I'd be all over that !

Who you gonna call? TankBusters!

Quote from: TBird1958 on November 20, 2012, 10:48:05 AM
It's amazing what you can do with plywood and dope!

Like make a longer lasting spliff?

TBird1958 · November 20, 2012, 04:59:28 PM

Is "spliff" what I *think* it is?

Highlander · November 20, 2012, 05:10:59 PM

[stirring jingoistice wartime music]Unsung hero of BOB, as there were a darn site more of them involved than the Spitfire but the Spit got all the glory from a laypersons perspective - powered by a Rolls Royce Merlin - not to many now left flying...

Douglas (reach for the sky) Bader was a Hurricane pilot during BOB...

More than half the aircraft shot down during BOB were claimed by Hurricanes...

Not bad for an old superceded aeroplane, imho...[/stirring jingoistice wartime music]

godofthunder · November 20, 2012, 07:47:22 PM

I read Reach For The Sky the first time in 8th grade I think that was in '72. It has been in my reading pile ever since.

Quote from: HERBIE on November 20, 2012, 05:10:59 PM
[stirring jingoistice wartime music]Unsung hero of BOB, as there were a darn site more of them involved than the Spitfire but the Spit got all the glory from a laypersons perspective - powered by a Rolls Royce Merlin - not to many now left flying...

Douglas (reach for the sky) Bader was a Hurricane pilot during BOB...

More than half the aircraft shot down during BOB were claimed by Hurricanes...

Not bad for an old superceded aeroplane, imho...[/stirring jingoistice wartime music]

Big_Stu · November 21, 2012, 08:30:49 AM

Quote from: godofthunder on November 20, 2012, 07:47:22 PM
I read Reach For The Sky the first time in 8th grade I think that was in '72. It has been in my reading pile ever since.

If ever you get chance to see Michael Parkinson (UK chat show) interview Bader take it! It's excellent, similar vocabulary to Terry-Thomas. "Rotters" & "Prangs" etc. It's not on YT just now, but it was before, maybe the BBC had it taken down, could only find this....

uwe · November 21, 2012, 11:53:00 AM

The Hurricane was sturdy and its 2x4 Browning machine gun firepower nicely concentrated for shooting down a lumbering Heinkel or Dornier, Stuka or Me 110 (which is why Bader liked it over the Spit with its less concentrated Browning fire power),

"Like all pilots who flew and fought in the Hurricane, I grew to love it. It was strong, highly maneuverable, could turn inside the Spitfire and of course the Me 109. Best of all, it was a marvellous gun platform. The sloping nose gave you a splendid forward view, while the eight guns were set in blocks of four in each wing, close to the fuselage. The aeroplane remained rock steady when you fired. Unlike the Spitfire with its lovely elliptical wing which sloped towards the tip, the Hurricane wing was thicker and straight. The Spitfire was less stead when the guns were firing because, I have always thought, they were spread further along the wing, and the recoil effect was noticeable."

but it was no match against an Me 109 E, much less the F model.

The vast majority of German airplanes downed in the Battle of Britain were non-Me 109s. In fact, fewer single seat German fighters were shot down (or ran out of gas) in the Battle of Britain than RAF single seat fighters. I have doubts whether Hurricanes shot down Me-109s in any significant quantity, but that was not their job, they were there to shoot down bombers and that they did well. If no Me-109s were around that is.

Bader was a skilled pilot and a courageous man and maybe he did have a chance in a fight with a fresh Me-109 pilot in 1940, but between two equally skilled and experienced pilots, the Hurricane had no chance against an Me-109. The Luftwaffe fighter pilots didn't take the Hurricane serious as an opponent and Hurricane losses in North Africa against Luftwaffe fighters were as bad as P-40 losses.

The Battlle of Britain might have been won by the RAF even without the Spitfire, but it would have been a lot more arduous.

This makes for interesting reading, but should be read with a pinch of salt given that pilots had a natural inclination to favor their own aircraft types:

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/109E_vergleich110SpitHurCurtiss/109E_vergleichsflg_Aug1940.html

TBird1958 · November 21, 2012, 12:58:34 PM

Reminds me of that scene in "Battle of Britain" when Keith Parks climbs out of his personal Hurricane in his white flying suit.......I always liked Hurris better than Spits.

godofthunder · November 21, 2012, 01:12:28 PM

As for liking one over the other it is purely a academic/romanticized study. Of course I have never flow either and never will. The Hurricane appeals to me in both the ascetic and it's ability to perform even though much better aircraft were available. The men who flew them were unbelievably brave. Give me a P-47D any day of the week.

TBird1958 · November 21, 2012, 01:16:00 PM

Yup! IIRC the variable pitch prop made a huge difference in it's peformance, especially climb and turn. But like many U.S. aircraft it could come home missing a lot of parts, an endearing quality when you're over enema territory.

godofthunder · November 21, 2012, 01:25:15 PM

The Pratt and Whitney R2800 being air cooled could take a large amount of damage and still bring pilot and plane home. Once the P-47 was fitted with the wide blade prop the planes performance especially in climb rate improved dramatically.