Holy crap, what a score! WWII content...

Denis · December 08, 2011, 05:19:56 AM

I've heard of barn finds but this is beyond fantastic!

Denis · December 08, 2011, 05:37:03 AM

And here's a T-34 pulled out of a bog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYXNLrXBgE&feature=relmfu

Denis · December 08, 2011, 05:41:55 AM

And a T70...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcvlToTW-A&feature=relmfu

Denis · December 08, 2011, 05:42:36 AM

And a KV-1...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSk85mjbpDM&feature=relmfu

Denis · December 08, 2011, 05:43:57 AM

And another T-34, marked with German crosses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJ-acc9Qsk&feature=relmfu

Barklessdog · December 08, 2011, 06:26:46 AM

That is just too cool.

uwe · December 08, 2011, 07:47:24 AM

I'm waiting for the crews to come out!!!

Pilgrim · December 08, 2011, 09:25:38 AM

Wikipedia says the STUG weighed 52,690 pounds. It would take one hellacious big-ass 'dozer to pull one out of a bog!

Denis · December 08, 2011, 09:58:12 AM

Yeah, and that's a LITTLE fella! I can't imagine the suction applied to something that heavy stuck under mud and all that water.
The videos are fascinating for a number of reasons. That all the tanks in the posted videos actually rolled is amazing. I also find it interesting that most of the ones in swamps and bogs were upside down. Makes me think that road/path they were on were really narrow and one side of the tank slid off and it rolled over. The Russian tanks were filled with mines, shells, hand grenades, etc. Looks like they were evacuated in a hurry by the tankers!

gweimer · December 08, 2011, 11:38:21 AM

Not to hijack this, but I worked with a former German tank corps soldier. He told us that there were only two divisions of the Nazi military that wore black uniforms - tank corp and SS. The orders to the Allies on invading Germany were to "shoot to kill if it's wearing black". My coworker told us that the tank corps personnel were burning their uniforms inside the tanks before they left them.

Pilgrim · December 08, 2011, 12:07:35 PM

It really surprised me that every one of those tanks had treads that worked after sitting in mud and water for so long. It speaks to how incredibly robust and durable the parts involved in that tread assembly are.

I also noted how many were upside down - I suspect that many of them sank into soft areas with one side lower than another, and the weight of the turret was enough to turn them over as they sank.

Denis · December 08, 2011, 12:25:45 PM

Quote from: gweimer on December 08, 2011, 11:38:21 AM
Not to hijack this, but I worked with a former German tank corps soldier. He told us that there were only two divisions of the Nazi military that wore black uniforms - tank corp and SS. The orders to the Allies on invading Germany were to "shoot to kill if it's wearing black". My coworker told us that the tank corps personnel were burning their uniforms inside the tanks before they left them.

I read the same thing. I imagine the tank crews wore black because the inside of those things were probably pretty grubby after they'd been in the field for a while. They got screwed when lumped in with the SS!

Quote from: Pilgrim on December 08, 2011, 12:07:35 PM
It really surprised me that every one of those tanks had treads that worked after sitting in mud and water for so long. It speaks to how incredibly robust and durable the parts involved in that tread assembly are.
I also noted how many were upside down - I suspect that many of them sank into soft areas with one side lower than another, and the weight of the turret was enough to turn them over as they sank.

I suspect being submerged in the cold water of the bogs helped a lot because I'm sure there's little oxygen down there and the cold would prevent the grease from deteriorating thus keeping the bearings from seizing.
Early in the war, and through most of it, the German tracked vehicles had narrow tracks. These were fine until spring when the snows thawed. They simply weren't wide enough to support the vehicle so I'm willing to bet that's why most of the German vehicles found are these. They probably never had the chance to get blown up but were abandoned where they sank.

uwe · December 08, 2011, 01:50:33 PM

The black uniform thing is true. A couple of fire brigade men with black uniforms were unceremoniously shot by GIs in my hometown Dieburg when the town was occupied/surrendered (French POWs - we had inter alia a military hospital for POW French officers - negotiated a truce with advancing US troops) in 1945, it was the only reported atrocity. Ever since the battle of the Bulge and the massacre of yank POWs at Malmedy by SS rear forces the guys in black had a very nasty reputation. Not every SS man was a villain, not every Wehrmacht guy an angel, but the SS went needlessly cruel as early as 1940 when they shot English POWs in France in a blood-feverish frenzy. That was unheard of until then and the Wehrmacht was aghast. English soldiers were perceived as the "cream of the enemy" by German forces (and accorded best treatment in German POW camps).

SS tank commander, note skull on hat but never on collar which has the SS runes:

Wehrmacht tank commander, skull sometimes on beret AND ALWAYS on collar:

Fire brigade uniform - in hindsight an unfortunate, even tragic choice:

Denis · December 08, 2011, 02:45:57 PM

Really interesting photos, Uwe! That Wehrmacht tank commander outfit with the skull and crossbones surprises me!

Sort of on topic in relation to the SS...
My tennis teacher in high school had been a Colonel in WWII and a liaison officer with Gen Maurice Rose of the 3Rd Armored Division. When they were in Italy was the first time US troops had to deal with the SS.
In one encounter US troops and SS were fighting each other from opposite sides of a raised railway line. Each side would hold guns over their heads and try to shoot the other. At one point, the SS raised their hands and stood up as though they were surrendering. When the US troops stood up, the SS dropped and their comrades behind them opened up with machine guns, killing the US troops.

He said after that they pretty much shot any and all SS troops they ran across even if they were surrendering.

Another old guy in my neighborhood said the cruelest German soldiers he ran across were Hitler Youth. If I remember correctly he said they shot a lot of them too.

uwe · December 08, 2011, 05:36:59 PM

The Hitler Youth thing comes as no surprise, there was an SS Division Hitler Jugend made up solely of fanaticized trigger-happy ex-Hitler Youth boys and they were actually (mostly still in their late teens) the ones responsible for the vile shooting of the Brit POWs in France 1940. Which had the Wehrmacht railing against what it called "putting fanatic children under guns and sending them to the front".

Following the (morally right and inherently patriotic) about-face of the Italians in 1943, German forces (not just SS) severely toughned up their conduct there, viewing all Italians as "traitors" (when in fact they had done what the Germans were unable to do: save their country from utter destruction). Incredibly ugly things happened there, mass shootings of interned Italian forces, bad treatment of Italian POWs, retaliatory (or just for the heck of it) massacres of the Italian civil population, it's a very dark chapter.