1963 'Bird Custom Color????

[mc2NY]

Does anyone have a Firebird/TBird Custom Color chart from 1963-64 that has this color name on it..."Aztec Bronze?" (An internet search of that Gibson name comes up blank.)

I asked the seller and he says he does but "his wife filed it" and he cannot find it.

It looks a lot like a 45-year-old, aged "Sparkling Burgundy," the custom Firebird color added in 1965.....and I believe the GM/Dupont car color was called Aztec Bronze (same as Riviera Red/Sierra Red)...Gibson's version of Fender's Candy Apple Red Metallic.

Problem is THAT GM color only came out in 1965 for the 1966 car models....making this 1963 Firebird too early.

I suggested maybe one of those reused Gibby SN#s or a NOS body later completed? Or a factory refin in '65 for someone, after the color came out?

Southeby's NOT spotting a refin is completely possible because they had my old 1963 Fender Bass VI listed as original in the same auction that I'd sold Entwistle in the mid-80s....and I had to email them to correct it as a refin (same original color with matching headstock...I'd had it refinned because it was super yellowed out.) So, they are no experts.

Either way....pretty cool Entwistle piece

_______________________________

Gibson Firebird 1963 7 Aztec Bronze John Entwistle The Who

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320792602650&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

[dadagoboi]

Just on a general auto paint and specifically GM colors:

A particular paint color would have different names depending on the brand it was used on.  For example:  Honduras Maroon and Titian Red are the same color, Chevrolet and IIRC Oldsmobile respectively.  Cadillac, Pontiac and Buick had their own names for the color.  It made each brand look exclusive.

40K is a lot of cabbage, I imagine the seller is not too happy to hear it's a refin.  But Entwistle seemed to have no qualms with refinning anything.

[Pilgrim]

^^ Agreed. Paint names aren't universal.

Seems to me that an Entwhistle owned and played bass trumps whether the finish is original, refin or peanut butter. 

[EvilLordJuju]

I've never seen that name. The closest colour looks like Heather poly to me. Stupidly rare whatever you call it.

[Dave W]

Pretty, whatever it is. From an image search it does look like the later GM Aztec Bronze. Never saw that on a Gibson color chart but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

[mc2NY]

He posted more pics.....Wouldn't an original color '63 Firebird have silver paint in the control cavity? This one is painted the same color as the body.

[the mojo hobo]

This guy seems to know a lot about Gibson custom colors.

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/gibsonc.html

[uwe]

I do not collect for fins. Nor does the question of their originality enhance or reduce the personal value of the thus afflicted instruments to me. It's all a bit cultish to me. In a couple of more decades all those old fins will be flaking off anyhow or all turn sepia brown. I will then not hesitate to have my stuff refinned with fresh colors.

[TBird1958]

It's a cool color, no doubt.

But if something needs paint in my collection, it gets painted. I seriously considering sending my black '77 (the one our good Herr Carlston sold me)  to Marty Bell. I think a metallic blue would be nice 

[mc2NY]

I agree....I have no objections to refinning.

I am only interested in finding out when this custom color was offered and what its correct name was.

However, a rare original custom color can boost the value a bit (this seller seems to be milking it a bit....especially when the provenance is based on facts of the auction house and not the deceased owner.)

Also, it's NOT a bass Entwistle played but a 6-string guitar he owned in his collection. That's not as valuable as one of his actual basses. Plus, if it proves to be a refin.....less again.

Considering he's got a $40,000 price tage on this, both these facts would greatly alter the value IMO.

[dadagoboi]

I agree....I have no objections to refinning.

I am only interested in finding out when this custom color was offered and what its correct name was.

However, a rare original custom color can boost the value a bit (this seller seems to be milking it a bit....especially when the provenance is based on facts of the auction house and not the deceased owner.)

Also, it's NOT a bass Entwistle played but a 6-string guitar he owned in his collection. That's not as valuable as one of his actual basses. Plus, if it proves to be a refin.....less again.

Considering he's got a $40,000 price tage on this, both these facts would greatly alter the value IMO.

Amen

[mc2NY]

This guy seems to know a lot about Gibson custom colors.

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/gibsonc.html

Yeah, I actually DID email him. His response:

"it could be anything. they did true custom colors,
just to confuse us 40 years later!"

[Pilgrim]

Yeah, I actually DID email him. His response:

"it could be anything. they did true custom colors,
just to confuse us 40 years later!"

That may be the most accurate statement I've heard in a long time.

[Dave W]

Could be. But for $45K, better find where your wife "filed" the evidence, and better get an independent expert to certify that it's not a refin.

[mc2NY]

Well....the seller added more/better shots of the axe.

BUT...perhaps someone else questioned it being a refin, with the control cavity being the body color and not silver....because he removed the pic showng that