Help with EBO combo - Nothing posted anywhere!?!

[OldGuy]

I Just scored the project EB0 off ebay I've been waiting to find.  I want to add a second pickup to it and use it as my daily player.  I am looking to add that classic “thump” of a 62 p bass as one (of several) of my tone options, but not necessarily the total sound of a p base.  My initial thought was to calculate the precise location required and add a classic 62 p base pickup.  BUT in 4 months of searching every forum I could discover, I could not find one, not one post where someone did this.  There must be some inherent flaw in the idea, the structure of the EBO, the wood, the scale, impedance mismatch, something.

I don't have much experience with different pick ups and combinations so it would be stupid for me to buy based on descriptions.  I would love to get some informed options.  I wouldn't mind buying and testing several pickups as long as they started in the vicinity of the goal.  But the rout location (bridge or p base location) is irreversible.  So I would truly like to tap some of hands-on expertise before bringing out the router

[Basvarken]

You want to find the exact P-bass sweet spot on a short scale EB-0?
That's a challenge. 
Maybe you could calcute where it would have to be. But it will never sound the same.


Have you seen this thread on TalkBass?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/firebird-pickup-bass-464876/

[Barklessdog]

Welcome-
I did something similar using a RioGrande PitBull pickup which is essentially a super hot P bass pickup in a humbucker cover (Thats what RioGrande told me)

It keeps the Gibson Vibe  as many people cringe at a P bass pickup routed in an EB-0, but it is your bass & you can do whatever you like.

I located the Pitbull as far forward without having to cut the pick guard.







it sounds great & offers single coil mode, which I used a push pull pot . You want a high output pickup to go with the Mudbucker. Mine works great together & the bass really has a Billy Sheehan tone that really growls. If you want low action Shaller & Hipshot make replacement bridges for them. I also used lightweight Sperzel locking tuners & a Big D Varitone switch

[dadagoboi]

IMO Seymour Duncan Antiquity II has a very authentic '62 P Bass sound at a reasonable price.

As far as the location, the 'sweet spot' on an EBO would be 15/17 of the distance from the equivalent spot of the PBass location.  The centerline of the pickup is approximately 11.75 inches from the 12th fret on a Squier P I just checked.  You can do the math.

You ARE going to have a volume imbalance problem between the mudbucker and the P Bass pup.  Also you may have to experiment with pots, Gibson uses 500K and SD/Fender uses 250k.

Good luck!

[OldGuy]

You want to find the exact P-bass sweet spot on a short scale EB-0?
That's a challenge. 
Maybe you could calcute where it would have to be. But it will never sound the same.


Have you seen this thread on TalkBass?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/firebird-pickup-bass-464876/

Thanks Basvarken, I had not seen that one.  I am going to read it in greater detail to see what all he did.  There was several good posts on other websites upon how to calculate the precise location for a p bass pick up.  I have done it for both the 60's and 70's locations but you hit my number one fear.......it simply will not sound the same.

[OldGuy]

Welcome-
I did something similar using a RioGrande PitBull pickup which is essentially a super hot P bass pickup in a humbucker cover (Thats what RioGrande told me)

It keeps the Gibson Vibe  as many people cringe at a P bass pickup routed in an EB-0, but it is your bass & you can do whatever you like.

I located the Pitbull as far forward without having to cut the pick guard.







it sounds great & offers single coil mode, which I used a push pull pot . You want a high output pickup to go with the Mudbucker. Mine works great together & the bass really has a Billy Sheehan tone that really growls. If you want low action Shaller & Hipshot make replacement bridges for them. I also used lightweight Sperzel locking tuners & a Big D Varitone switch

OOOOO yeaaah.   I have seen your bass before in a post on adding a pick up.  I booked marked that post, your website, the rio grande website, the big D website and read them all extensively.  Your results were impressive, beautiful and it is my number one option right now. I am glad you popped in because it was a older post and I was hesitant to pm you.  Two questions I would really like to ask;  1. Did the rio grande give you a little of that "thump" I referenced?  1. How did you wire in the Big D varitone? (Already have the Hipshot in hand, but it is a slot head so I don't know what I can do about the tuners).  I also ordered a brass nut from these Guys.  Don't know if it will impact things much but I thought it was worth a try.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLOTTED-BRASS-NUT-SBC-Concept-Bass-Guitar-Gibson-EB-/180680472556?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2a116537ec#ht_579wt_1135

[OldGuy]

IMO Seymour Duncan Antiquity II has a very authentic '62 P Bass sound at a reasonable price.

As far as the location, the 'sweet spot' on an EBO would be 15/17 of the distance from the equivalent spot of the PBass location.  The centerline of the pickup is approximately 11.75 inches from the 12th fret on a Squier P I just checked.  You can do the math.

You ARE going to have a volume imbalance problem between the mudbucker and the P Bass pup.  Also you may have to experiment with pots, Gibson uses 500K and SD/Fender uses 250k.

Good luck!

  Thanks for the help - I will use those calculations to double check what I have. I am going to have a look at those Duncan's too.  I was aware of the problems that the imbalance between pickups would create.  I found a post from a guy in Sweden who added a true mudbucker to his p base and encountered that problem.  He solved it by building a Varitone/Blend pot of sorts for the p base pickup with capacitors of different values.  He posted sound samples of his results which were impressive.  I can dig it out and post the link if anyone is interested.

[Chris P.]

I love my SG Reissue Bass. Lots of lows for ballads and the bridge pickup doesn't sound like a P, but it's perfect if I need a P-ish sound in a song. Of course a short scale, set neck, magohangy bass will never sound exactly as a Fender.

[Barklessdog]

OOOOO yeaaah.   I have seen your bass before in a post on adding a pick up.  I booked marked that post, your website, the rio grande website, the big D website and read them all extensively.  Your results were impressive, beautiful and it is my number one option right now. I am glad you popped in because it was a older post and I was hesitant to pm you.  Two questions I would really like to ask;  1. Did the rio grande give you a little of that "thump" I referenced?  1. How did you wire in the Big D varitone? (Already have the Hipshot in hand, but it is a slot head so I don't know what I can do about the tuners).  I also ordered a brass nut from these Guys.  Don't know if it will impact things much but I thought it was worth a try.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLOTTED-BRASS-NUT-SBC-Concept-Bass-Guitar-Gibson-EB-/180680472556?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2a116537ec#ht_579wt_1135

Definitely gives you old thump. It's also a very versatile set up, blending the two pickups & the split coil option & where you play on the strings. Wiring the Big D was easy with one wire going to the pot & the other to the jack. I must warn you however, that with the BigD it gives you noise & pops switching between settings & also has large volume drops / increases. It is also not a true choke varitone but a series of capacitors. Still I really like using it.

[Dave W]

P placement has varied a tiny bit in the years before CNC-routed bodies. If you place the center line at 85% of the scale length, you'll be close enough. But don't kid yourself. No matter where you put it, you can't really get a P sound from a short scale mahogany bass.

To get a P-ish sound and enough punch to suit you, the RG Pitbull might be a good option, just be aware that it's not a split-coil P. It's the equivalent of two '51-style single coils wired as a humbucker.

[Grog]

Then there's always the Grabber sliding pickup for people that like different sounds on different days, then your "Sweet Spot" can move around............

http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/1976-Grabber-electronics3.jpg

[OldGuy]

I love my SG Reissue Bass. Lots of lows for ballads and the bridge pickup doesn't sound like a P, but it's perfect if I need a P-ish sound in a song. Of course a short scale, set neck, magohangy bass will never sound exactly as a Fender.

Over on the Gibson forum most of the discussion seems to favor the SG reissue over the original EB because of the flexibility you mention.  I have an EB3 in great condition so I did not want to alter it.  The EBO that I ended up getting is in truly bad shape so I am looking forward to the experiment without any guilt.

[eb2]

If you want a late 70s period authentic mod, stick a DiMarzio p-bass pup (cream colored) about where the cover/rest/useless metal thing sat in the middle. Do the rout with a hammer and a flat-head screwdriver, and pop a hole in it for a mini-toggle to series/parallel the p pup.  Then stick Schallers on it, and a Kiss sticker.  ROCK N ROLL!

Seriously, I have no idea for best placement, as they never sound that great on these.  You maybe have to raise the action and slide it around before routing, while hooked into and amp. Your ears will know.

[OldGuy]

Then there's always the Grabber sliding pickup for people that like different sounds on different days, then your "Sweet Spot" can move around............

http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/1976-Grabber-electronics3.jpg

I went over to Fly Guitar and listened to the sound samples.  I cant say too much about how to make the aesthetics work but the difference in tone between the two positions was pretty wild.  The Grabber.  I am going to have to see one of those first hand.

[OldGuy]

P placement has varied a tiny bit in the years before CNC-routed bodies. If you place the center line at 85% of the scale length, you'll be close enough. But don't kid yourself. No matter where you put it, you can't really get a P sound from a short scale mahogany bass.

To get a P-ish sound and enough punch to suit you, the RG Pitbull might be a good option, just be aware that it's not a split-coil P. It's the equivalent of two '51-style single coils wired as a humbucker.

I can see that the p base pick up idea just isn't going to work. But I am fine with that as it looks like I can get some of the P-ish elements into the tone through other means.  It looks like its the Pitbull but I still am trying to get some idea of what a second mudbucker in the bridge position might sound like.  There are alot of those around.  Question: would you recommend the traditional P location for the PitBull?