Author Topic: Nevermind... (Ping John Fertig!!!!!!!!!)  (Read 19108 times)

Pilgrim

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2011, 03:58:02 PM »
Jazz pickup = will fit in a Jazz bass.

Asume nothing else.
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uwe

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2011, 02:42:42 AM »
"Gibson had designed a very modern and original bass with the RD series."

Did they? When the Standard came out in 1977 it had meat and potatoes electroncis and a look most people identified with the Thunderbird from 15 years before or even the Explorer from 20 years before. A maple bass with two JB look pups, vol, vol, tone, a bridge from 1973 and an offset look almost traditional with some of Gibson's models. Even in 1977 none of this was modern. The electronics were actually a step back from the G 3 and its very original Bill Lawrence set up. If you are stretching things you might have called the stacked humbucker mock JB pups the most 'modern" or at least current characteristic on them.

It was only with the introduction of the Moog electronics a year later that the RD became the Artist and therefore modern. But sticking the Norlin electronics into the RD shape was more of an afterthought than anything else, it was just Gibson's most recent model they equipped with the active electronics, but the RD wasn't initially designed to hold the Moog board. If anything , the RD was the concept of an off-set body Grabber or a gently modernised, cheaper to produce and less break-prone Thunderbird.

Do we know whether those SDs on the RD Reissue are real single coils? If so, I'd be surprised, but in a good way, I like single coils on a bass, early fifties P, JBs and Ric 4001/4003 are all sounds I like.

Edit: No they're not, but they seem to be good rock pups:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pickups-for-jaz/4string/stkj2_hot_for_j/

Seymour Duncan Hot Stack STK-J2
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 03:26:02 AM by uwe »
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PhilT

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2011, 06:48:02 AM »
Gibson Procurement Manager: "We've had quotes from Seymour Duncan for the RD Reissue pickups. If we take their standard Jazz bass pickups, we can call them off as needed and if we take more than 50 there's a discount. Or they can produce something that looks exactly like the original, there'll be up front costs, they'll be more expensive per unit and we'll have to commit to a minimum production run."
Bass Product Manager: (waking up from long sleep) "The integrity of our brand requires an exact copy of the original"
CFO "How many people will even notice?"
BPM "There's half a dozen on the Last Bass Outpost ... and ... err ... and ..."
CFO "No one else? We'll go with the Jazz ones."

SGD Lutherie

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2011, 07:02:40 AM »
"Gibson had designed a very modern and original bass with the RD series."

Did they? When the Standard came out in 1977 it had meat and potatoes electroncis and a look most people identified with the Thunderbird from 15 years before or even the Explorer from 20 years before. A maple bass with two JB look pups, vol, vol, tone, a bridge from 1973 and an offset look almost traditional with some of Gibson's models. Even in 1977 none of this was modern. The electronics were actually a step back from the G 3 and its very original Bill Lawrence set up. If you are stretching things you might have called the stacked humbucker mock JB pups the most 'modern" or at least current characteristic on them.

The RD Artist came out in '77, and that's what I was referring to. The Standard was just the lower priced version, and didn't even stay in the line as long.
It did not have two JB pickups, where do you get that idea? They aren't Jazz bass pickups. What bass had stacked humbuckers in 1977? What bass came with active electronics in 1977 besides Alembics?

The RD series was designed to have a brighter tone. You might say it sounded like a Fender, but it could also have sounded like a Ric or Alembic too. The point was Gibson was not previously selling all that many basses because they were too dark sounding.

I'm not talking about the looks of the bass, but even then, it wasn't as safe looking as the Victory bass, or even the Lawrence designs like the Grabber, G3 and Ripper. But Lawrence also said that Norlin wouldn't totally fund his projects, so he had to make compromises. But the difference now is that Gibson won't even design some original pickups, and are going with after market copies of pickups designed by Leo Fender.

And what was Fender doing in 1977? Making 40+ year old bass designs. At least Gibson came out with a new bass design. It's OK that it looks like a Thunderbird, and used existing Gibson parts. The fact that it was not a design from the 50s (Fender) or 60s (EB series) made it a modern bass.

Quote
It was only with the introduction of the Moog electronics a year later that the RD became the Artist and therefore modern. But sticking the Norlin electronics into the RD shape was more of an afterthought than anything else, it was just Gibson's most recent model they equipped with the active electronics, but the RD wasn't initially designed to hold the Moog board. If anything , the RD was the concept of an off-set body Grabber or a gently modernised, cheaper to produce and less break-prone Thunderbird.

It wasn't a year later. The Artist and standard were introduced in 1977. The RD was designed to use the Bob Moog designed electronics because Norlin also owned Moog. The first ads I saw for the RD series was for the Artist line and pushed the advanced electronics. The first RDs I saw in music stores were the Artist line. I never even saw a Standard in person, but had played a lot of Artists, both in guitar and bass form.

Quote
The Gibson Product development director at the time was Bruce Bolen. in this 1978 interview he explains the vision behind the RD artist.

One of the particular musical qualities that I personally was looking for in one of the models, was a similar effect to that of a steel player - this being the reduction of the intitial attack and the swell of the note after the initial attack had been made. A steel player of course uses a volume pedal to accomplish this but it was still something missing. Bob designed a special circuit that would achieve this as well as an expansion circuit unlike any other that had been designed to date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_RD

http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/RD.php

Don't forget, RD stands for "Research and Development" so that was the mindset with these instruments. The active versions were the original versions of the RDs.

Quote
Do we know whether those SDs on the RD Reissue are real single coils? If so, I'd be surprised, but in a good way, I like single coils on a bass, early fifties P, JBs and Ric 4001/4003 are all sounds I like.

Edit: No they're not, but they seem to be good rock pups:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pickups-for-jaz/4string/stkj2_hot_for_j/

Seymour Duncan Hot Stack STK-J2

Hot stacks. I don't mind the pickups, but I don't like the way they look on that bass.

Barklessdog

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2011, 07:25:40 AM »
Not much is said about the true nature of the John Entwistle conection in any of the articles you read. Somewhere it was thought the Artist was developed for JE, but after recieving it, he disliked it.

Iome

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2011, 08:56:18 AM »
Can anybody tell me if the pickups in the RD Standard are the same as in the G3? And are they the same used on the S1 guitars?

SGD Lutherie

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2011, 09:08:34 AM »
Can anybody tell me if the pickups in the RD Standard are the same as in the G3? And are they the same used on the S1 guitars?

The G3 and S1 used single coils. They were hum canceling when two were used at the same time.  The RD Standard had "Series 3" humbuckers.

Iome

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2011, 09:28:21 AM »
Was it the same pickup in both the guitar and the bass?

wagdog

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2011, 10:53:57 AM »
Has anybody already noted that this isn't a re-issue model but a signature?  As a re-issue it fails horribly but maybe Mr. Novoselic had replaced his pickups with jazzes.  I'm just guessing here....

uwe

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2011, 10:58:12 AM »
I've never seen a 77 Artist, only Standards! Even 78 Artists are comparatively rare. My two Artists are 79 or later (81, a CMT).  And the first ones that hit Germany were actually Standards, but I liked them then. The Artist was popularized in the following year by a national rock live TV show where the bassist of Ten Years Later (Alvin Lee's band post Ten Years After) played one.



I'm not saying that the electronics weren't groundbreaking on the RD Artist (if hardly popular, a few years later no one was playing them anymore while the Stingray had conquered the bass world), but when it comes to housing a battery, wasn't the Stingray the first non-exotic popular bass with a battery and didn't that already come out in 76?

My guess was always that the electronics gave them trouble in the prototype phase and that that is why the simpler Standard overtook the Artist at the advent of introduction (true, it wasn't advertised as the next big thing, only the Artist was). No argument either that the Standard was the unloved sibling and only produced for a year or so. And I did write that it featured only "mock" (not real) JB pups - I think the intention of Gibson was clear, they wanted JB players to take notice of the beast.

I don't see what's wrong with Gibson using SD product for a new bass - the aborted Continental V would have featured SDs and so does the Ripper II. Actually, I like that they are using SD pups on this reissue. No sense reinventing the wheel.

I remember that the RDs were met with derision in Germany in 1977/78 which was firmly in the hands of Fender players and - of course - the then new Stingray about which wonderous stories were heard (until those truss tods started going bust on the first series!). The set neck (as opposed to a snappy bolt-on), the "weird" shape amd the overall size and weight of the RDs had them perceived as ungainly 'logs'. I liked them but I believe I was the only one and even back then never liked Fender shapes.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 11:09:46 AM by uwe »
We've taken too much for granted ... and all the time it had grown ...
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SGD Lutherie

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2011, 11:36:44 AM »
but maybe Mr. Novoselic had replaced his pickups with jazzes.  I'm just guessing here....

No, he didn't. His bass was stock. So it fails there as well!

This photo looks like an Artist, and not a Standard. See the larger pickups?


dadagoboi

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2011, 12:18:55 PM »

 What bass came with active electronics in 1977 besides Alembics?
This one...when it was built in '76

SGD Lutherie

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2011, 12:41:17 PM »
This one...when it was built in '76


Oh, yeah, forgot about those. I should have known too, since I build '76 Stingray preamp clones!  :-[  But the point was that's a "modern" bass as well, since it wasn't designed in the 50s or 60s.

Highlander

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2011, 12:59:43 PM »
... This photo looks like an Artist, and not a Standard. See the larger pickups?

The controls are the giveaway for an Artist, which this is...

I actually thought the big switches were kind of cool...

My issue was alway the position of the controls, which has always been my issue with instruments...
Think of an RD Artist and a gigging player, and you want to change the setup mid song, give it a more biting sound... hmm... now where are those switches...?
Most of the time I play up by the neck... and they're waaaaay back past the bridge...

My RD (as in r&d) was to place the pup switch in the (classic) LP position for quick changes and a pair of minis replacing the BIG one mounted on the lower corner of the scratch plate, in front of the pots...

Now she has no frets (courtesy of Peter Cook back in '81) and no Moog, and if I ever finish the rebuild all she will have is one pot and one pup (by the neck) and all them holes filled and gone...
The random mind of a Silver Surfer...
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dadagoboi

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Re: Nevermind...
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2011, 01:05:57 PM »
Oh, yeah, forgot about those. I should have known too, since I build '76 Stingray preamp clones!
Great, 'natural' sounding preamp with the Alnico pup IMO.  What are you using in place of the original op amp?