5 string Epi

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I'd heard good things about the 4 string pro pickups, that's why I hit the BIN.

..what Uwe said. The Pro pickups are WAY better.

Today a FrankenFiver arrived: Fender 5 in line blocked maple neck; G &L body, tone circuits and pickups; Alembic bridge and tailpiece.  More parts to parse.  It weighs 12.5 lbs, that maple body should burn pretty good.

Before you tear it down, got a pic? And please tell me you're joking about the body. One that heavy sounds suspiciously like an L5500/early L2500.

[dadagoboi]

..what Uwe said. The Pro pickups are WAY better.

Before you tear it down, got a pic? And please tell me you're joking about the body. One that heavy sounds suspiciously like an L5500/early L2500.

I'll post a pic or 2 in other bass brands when I do the tear down.  I won't be burning the body, too much toxic poly paint on it.

[gearHed289]

He thinks they use the same pups in both the 4 and 5 string models.

Isn't that what Gibson did with the T-Bird Studio 5 and the Bass V? Ric tried that with the 4004Cii/5 and ended up pulling the entire instrument off the market.

I'm on the fence about a 5er. I've been sort of trying to make myself want to play one again, but it just isn't feeling right.  The octave pedal is getting me by for the few spots I really need it.

[dadagoboi]

Isn't that what Gibson did with the T-Bird Studio 5 and the Bass V? Ric tried that with the 4004Cii/5 and ended up pulling the entire instrument off the market.

That's why I've been buying a bunch of stuff for research.  The TBX pup compares favorably to both my Yamaha Nathan East and G&L L2500 in passive mode.  It has the Tbird growl, they don't.  The question is how many Fiver players want that.

[uwe]

Isn't that what Gibson did with the T-Bird Studio 5 and the Bass V? Ric tried that with the 4004Cii/5 and ended up pulling the entire instrument off the market.

I'm on the fence about a 5er. I've been sort of trying to make myself want to play one again, but it just isn't feeling right.   The octave pedal is getting me by for the few spots I really need it.

The regular TB Plus pups are so oversize that they work with a five string spacing no sweat. If anything, the B strings are a bit too mighty (take no prisoners, but bludgeon everything into submission) on any TB Plus equipped Gibson bass be it V (not Flying "V"), LPB/5 Special or TB Studio. My guess is that they were designed from day one to fit both. Never forget that the first basses to feature TB Plus pups were the IV and V which came out before the reissued TBird in 87. So, for once, Gibson did something right (and created a pup for which it is extremely hard to get a replacement pup with the same size!).

In contrast, the Ric pups made for the 4003S/5 are pitiful failures as they are both underwhelming on the B and G string so no amount of slanting the pup will help you compensate both in loudness. E, A and D are just fine though.  

And I still stand by my statement that in a normal rock band with normal tunings, the music will sound emptier if you play a low D on a B string as opposed to a high/regular one on the A. I've had that effect again and again. Fine if you want to get underneath the bass drum, but not if you want to merge bass drum with guitar via your own playing. Besides there are low thirds to a D in abundance on the E at the first and second fret and which upstanding bassist would play the root where there is a third available? Root and fifth playing really is for guitarists who don't know any better. It figures that they would be the ones to refer to a chording mishap that sacrifices the differentiating third between major and minor (and thousands of years of Western music history with it) as a "power chord". 

[dadagoboi]

TB+ pickups fit in the same cans as vintage Thunderbird pickups, IIRC Mark and Tom have both stuffed them into vintage or Lull cans.  They are bigger overall because of the ABS cover.  Mounting hole spacing is EXACTLY the same as vintage TBird (and all 35 series pups). They should work OK for a spring spread over the pup of no more than 2.5 inches.  But there are ways to make them better.

I don't agree that a D played on a B string is of itself a bad idea.  It depends on the bass, string, pickup, tone shaping, and most important, the player.  It seems to me many 5 string players are obsessed with the subsonic and eq for too much fundamental.

If I knew what a 'Normal' rock band was I'm sure I'd hate it.

[uwe]

Name me 10 fifties, sixties or seventies rock hits which required a low B. Difficult one, huh?

Ok, second chance: Name three melodic bass solos that require a low B? Can't think of any? You are not very good ...

Ok, final chance: How many concerts have you witnessed where a member of the audience said after the gig: "Man, I really missed the low B of the bass player!"?

See what I mean? And you can't even wear them like a G string either.

Case proven, hearing adjourned ...

[dadagoboi]

Name me 10 fifties, sixties or seventies rock hits which required a low B. Difficult one, huh?

Ok, second chance: Name three melodic bass solos that require a low B? Can't think of any? You are not very good ...

Ok, final chance: How many concerts have you witnessed where a member of the audience said after the gig: "Man, I really missed the low B of the bass player!"?

See what I mean? And you can't even wear them like a G string either.

Case proven, hearing adjourned ...

Quite an exercise in logic. Might as well ask me to name 10 hits from the 20's,30s or 40s that required an electric bass.

Time marches on.  For a young bassplayer looking to gig, having a 5 string is an advantage and a necessity for some kinds of music.

[exiledarchangel]

5 strings just look wrong, in a crowdy way. I like the simplicity of 4 strings. Theres always BEAD if ya wanna go lower.

[dadagoboi]

5 strings just look wrong, in a crowdy way. I like the simplicity of 4 strings. Theres always BEAD if ya wanna go lower.

 Uwe says low B is unnecessary, period.

[exiledarchangel]

E and A is enough. G strings are for strippers anyway.

[Dave W]

Ok, final chance: How many concerts have you witnessed where a member of the audience said after the gig: "Man, I really missed the low B of the bass player!"?

How many concerts have you witnessed where a member of the audience doesn't realize that the bass is not just another guitar?

I couldn't care less about 5ers, but what the audience thinks shouldn't be a factor.

[uwe]

I could rephrase it that way and the answer would still be the same: How many concerts have you witnessed where a BASS PLAYING member of the audience said after the gig: "Man, I really missed the low B of the bass player!"?

The B string concept is inherently flawed because I have yet to encounter a B string whose harmonics don't go ape when you play it in the upper register. A 5 string bass is to a 4 string bass not what the low E of a four string bass would be to a short scale bass lacking the E string. And 34" is not the right scale for B either, but any larger scale sacrifices D string flexibility which is already at a tension peak with a reg long scale and sounds better in lower scales. You can't really hear the note that is deeper than a low D either, especially non-musicians can't. And when it comes to focus of sound any cheap synth can cream you into the ground, how depressing.

But for the record: Everyone may own and play as many fivers as they want (unelegant as they are and who heard of stringed instruments with an uneven number of strings!). Just don't tell me that it is mandatory in more than 10% of the parts of - at best 1% - of todays popular music.

I just don't see what there is to get excited about five halfnotes more, three of which are barely audible in the grand scheme of things and the ability to play vertically rather than horizontally, IIRC the Fender V failed with that "groundbreaking concept" royally. So what you are left with is a hugely invasive step (all 5ers sound more sluggish than their counterpart 4s for the additional wood mass unless the 4 stringer has a too skimpy neck in which case the 5er version lends it some welcome mass) for two audible halfnotes more. No, I don't see that in the same league of change and musical development as the electric bass was to the double bass in popular music, not by an XXL scale stretch. Listen to a Glenn Miller tune with a double bass and an electric bass and you'll know what I mean.

I have about a dozen fivers, some of them are even excellent basses (like the Status V Stealth II whose sustain just doesn't stop, yet is utterly snappy due to the one piece graphite body and neck) and playing them once in a while is a guilty pleasure because drummers (you know how they don't really listen to tonal notes ...  ) and similar life forms like them, but mandatory? Naw ...

[Psycho Bass Guy]

You don't like most modern metal either, and a low B (or lower) is a requirement for 95% of that.

[uwe]

Must I really accept that as a card-carrying Judas Priest and Black Sabbath fan with Mastodon, Metallica, Dir en Grey, Rammstein, SoaD, Bullet for my Valentine and Slipknot in his collection?!!!  

I was listening to heavy metal when most of these kids weren't even conceived and I still am listening to it and probably still will when they have already long moved on to the next fashion. This is one of my favorite heavy metal tunes and although it is from as early as 1983, it is a milestone in style elements used by grunge and nu metal almost 10 years later.