Q. What makes the perfect Thunderbird...? Discuss...

999 · June 02, 2011, 04:25:46 PM

The Embassy basses are great but I'll put a vote in for the 60s reverse birds. I had both at the same time and just preferred the neck carve, general feel and tone on the t-bird - oddly, the reverse birds are really comfortable for me - I had more dive/balance issues with the Embassy - though I think that issue is exaggerated all the way around. Upper register access (at least above the 17th fret) is a legit gripe on the reverse birds though not much of an issue for me personally - though I will say the upper register sounds better on that bass than any other I've had $:-\$

Dave W · June 02, 2011, 06:22:28 PM

Quote from: gweimer on June 02, 2011, 02:16:12 PM
For me the perfect Thunderbird is one that is an Epiphone Embassy.

But I think you expected that from me.

Wave your Epi freak flag!

uwe · June 03, 2011, 07:33:48 AM

Very poor spelling on that Epi endearing post I must say ...

Epi E(I)mba(lanc)ssy.

Denis · June 03, 2011, 08:16:31 AM

Are you saying he's an Embassissy?

stiles72 · June 03, 2011, 08:59:33 AM

For me, it's a 2000 Gibson Blackbird that has been modded with a V/V/T/T set up and three way toggle as opposed to the standard on/off switch. The pickups sound completely different than any other T-bird I've ever played, and have more output and cleaner and deeper lows. Unlike the regular Thunderbird IV's - the Blackbird features a slightly thinner nut (on mine at least), has an ebony fretboard, and has a three piece all mahogany neck as opposed to the multiple walnut/mahogany laminations on the IV. I recently set my IV up with a V/V/T/T and three way, and hope to someday come across a set of Blackbird pups to drop in it so I can switch between the two basses during a show without having to make drastic level and EQ changes. I really don't care that the Blackbird is technically a "Nikki Sixx Signature" bass- for me I dig it because of the way it plays and sounds.

Stjofön Big · June 03, 2011, 09:39:01 AM

Nobody who's got any info or ideas concerning any changes in the pups of the original T-bird, the Embassy?

Come on, you guys! There's gotta be more than hind legs in our crowd?

dadagoboi · June 03, 2011, 10:19:38 AM

Only applies to 60s pups.

GENERALLY, Epi used whatever Gibson gave them. I could give you the exact specs of various Gibson/Epi Thunderbird/Embassy pups by year but I'd have to kill someone, probably myself.

...Gibson used to determine how many winds were on a coil by using a timer, notoriously inaccurate. When Seymour Duncan bought the Gibson (EPI) winders they put rev counters on them, like Fender had been using since the beginning and why there's no huge discrepancy between Fender pups of different years. Unlike Gibsons which vary from pup to pup and coil to coil. What is readily apparent is that the chrome cover (late) are hotter than the nickel (early) pups and bridge pups are hotter than neck.

With the replicas Steve is making he winds ThunderBuckers with a rev counter, there's about 2 miles of wire in each one. He also calibrates the magnets to the early and late models. Those hot Epi Orville by Gibson pups? Powerful ceramic mags and less wire.

the mojo hobo · June 03, 2011, 05:33:40 PM

I can understand why a bridge pup would be hotter, but did they actually sort them as they were made? There are no markings to distinguish them, are there?

dadagoboi · June 03, 2011, 05:39:17 PM

Bridge pups generally have plastic covered cable, neck braided. Ditto with 76 RI even though pups have nothing else in common with '60s. Other than that it's an ongoing mystery as to how and why Gibson did most things...oh yeah, 1960s Melody Maker pups use the same magnets as Thunderbird pups but different bobbins, or so I'm told.

the mojo hobo · June 03, 2011, 05:40:53 PM

And concerning the perfect Thunderbird, for me it is a non-reverse. I bought mine in 1968 or '69 from Farmers Music in Marseilles Illinois for $90.00 and still have it today. Even though it has been broken several times, refinished, and modified, it is still perfect and I love it.

the mojo hobo · June 03, 2011, 05:43:31 PM

Quote from: dadagoboi on June 03, 2011, 05:39:17 PM
Bridge pups generally have plastic covered cable, neck braided. Ditto with 76 RI even though pups have nothing else in common with '60s. Other than that it's an ongoing mystery as to how and why Gibson did most things...oh yeah, 1960s Melody Maker pups use the same magnets as Thunderbird pups but different bobbins, or so I'm told.

Now there is an interesting fact. I didn't know because I've only ever had non-reverse Thunderbird IIs, but in the Embassy I had both pups had braided leads.

OldManC · June 03, 2011, 08:11:49 PM

I thought the 70's models had braided bridge pickups. The ones I have had were that way.

As regards the "perfect" bird, I'd posit that the sound and feel is in the beholder. A good 70's will always sound great to me. They don't sound exactly like a 60's bird to me, but I like them both. My preference takes place in how the bass sounds with the rest of the band. These days my favorite Thunderbird is a 73ish EB4 with bird pickups that are most likely from a Greco. I'm playing that one more than anything else I own in my current band. I like it so much I got some late SG bass pickups to put in an EB3L I have lying around. I'm not a mudbucker fan so I figured this was a better option that routing new holes and filling the old ones to create another usable ebBird.

Stjofön Big · June 04, 2011, 02:16:08 AM

Still, were there any differences in the Embassy - 60's - pups, like the change in model that the T-bird pups went through in 1965? That I do not know, yet.

dadagoboi · June 04, 2011, 04:15:38 AM

My '66 Embassy has the chrome (later, hotter) pups which didn't exist prior to the NR birds. Pretty sure Epi changed when Gibson did or they used the nickel (early) pups until they ran out and switched to chrome.

gweimer · June 04, 2011, 05:40:23 AM

Quote from: dadagoboi on June 04, 2011, 04:15:38 AM
My '66 Embassy has the chrome (later, hotter) pups which didn't exist prior to the NR birds. Pretty sure Epi changed when Gibson did or they used the nickel (early) pups until they ran out and switched to chrome.

The guy that sold me my Embassy, and gave me a brief history lesson, said that back in Kalamazoo, all the assembly for both Gibson and Epiphone were done on the same assembly line, and used a lot of common parts. From what he told me, there were some guitar models that didn't get a name tag until the final stages of production. You didn't know ahead of time whether a guitar was going to end up a Gibson or Epiphone. They were virtually identical and made by the same craftsmen. He even said that the company headquarters for each were in the same building, with the front door being around the corner from each other.