Fender truss rods and what is wrong with them ... (or me!) ...

[birdie]

Uwe, your bass tr has a problem. Until a month ago, also owned an american standard P5, a 51 RI, and a Tony Franklin fretless. All worked correctly.

[dadagoboi]

If Leo had meant us to adjust our truss rods, he'd have put the hole somewhere where you can get tools into it.

IIRC, I think he did.  The 'Bullet' trussrod was his idea, or at least was developed while he still owned Fender.  MM and G&L  have  them.  I'm sure  I'll be corrected if I'm wrong

[uwe]

We have no air conditioning (it's extremely rare to have it in Germany outside of business space and cars), live under the roof (with high ceilings though) and have very effective floor heating. So you do notice seasonal changes quite a bit, necks get spikey in winter as the fretends stick out etc. In Germany, summer tends to be rainy and humid, winters dry and cold.

I distrusted that friggin Fender ballend tool from day one, just didn't look to me like you could get real torque with it. And sure enough you didn't.  I don't have issues with adjusting "from behind" (no, Mark, don't say anything now!) and see the advantages in headstock stability, but Musicman should be eternally thanked for that wheel idea!

I hasten to add that on my 20 year+ basses, I adjust the neck much more seldom. As wood grows older it seems to lose the capability of losing and gaining humidity to the extent of younger, fresher wood. Generally, after 10 years or so, my basses tend to settle in.

[dadagoboi]

Probably more to do with humidity variation than temperature.  I forgot about your lack of need of air conditioning, I only go in January.

That 'no ball end' thing is another tip from Dan Erlewine.

Necks do seem to settle in after a few years.  I haven't adjusted the neck of my '60 EBO since around 1970 and it has 45-105s on it.

[patman]

Been a while since I've done this, but it seems like I would take the pickguard off, and use a flathead screw driver to turn the nut.  As big a one as would go into the neck opening without touching the sides.

[uwe]

The new Fenders don't have the slotted screw anymore but a hex (allen) socket. And a comparatively small one at that.

[exiledarchangel]

Maybe its an omen Uwe, that's screaming at you "you don't belong to the f****r world"!

[jumbodbassman]

been playing fenders since 72.  stripped a few ends peices (easy to replace) but never had one freeze up or such.  some 70's necks were a mess though....

[birdie]

Local player just brought ma a Japanese P bass with a TR issue. Now, thia guy sweats BUCKETS of evidently very toxic elements.... The rod was rusted in place! Couldn'budge it with any common efforts. Ended up removing it, putting it on the wood vise at the end of my bench. Then with the beefiest flat head I have, and the largest visegrip I have, and two separate applications of some loosening stuff I found in the cabinet, I got her to turn ( after waiting 45 minutes or so)
Now it's as straight as can be. Goes to show you. I was almost ready to make him a new neck!

[JazzBassTbird]

I think the real culprit is the WOOD. Fender apparantly can't get a hold of good quality properly seasoned maple anymore. I've been buying, selling, and repairing guitars and basses since 1974. I haven't seen more than a handful of Fender necks (guitars included!) made in the last 25 years that didn't have to have the truss rod maxed out in order to get the neck where it should be.

The "BiFlex" truss rod Fender's used on American Standards and some other models (adjusts at the headstock through the walnut plug) since 1983 or so is pretty much a joke. If the Allen sockey ever needs to be replaced, it's a nightmare instead of a simple job because it's a captive nut. The purpose of the BiFlex rod is to be able to adjust out backbow should it arise. I haven't seen a back bowed Fender neck since the advent of the BiFlex truss rod, why they continue to implement it is a mystery to me.

On Custom Shop Fenders with vintage style truss rods, I've seen a lot of quarter sawn necks...mostly basses, but some guitar too. While there's nothing innately wrong with a quarter sawn neck (you pretty much have use it when using a softer wood like mahogany) Fender never used quarter sawn necks until relatively recently. The reason is STRENGTH. I don't think they can find good enough quality maple for half sawn wood to hold up, especially on basses. The quarter sawn wood has a "butcher block" look, since the silk of the grain is on the front of the headstock and back of the neck that I personally don't care for.

[Dave W]

No one else seems to have a problem getting properly aged maple, it's not in short supply at all. I find it hard to believe that Fender would. Repairmen I've talked to over the years say Fenders don't have an unusual amount of neck or truss rod problems.

Quartersawn is not stronger than flatsawn. Either type has its advantages and disadvantages.

[dadagoboi]

I have 3 'Fender Genuine Replacement ' necks, the kind that came in velvet bags with those words laser etched into the back of the headstock with build stickers, name stamps, date and correct headstock decals.  2 '57 P and 1 '61 J.

They require more adjusting than any other necks I own and the Jazz needed washers to get some adjustment back after bottoming out on the threads.  Dates are around 2002.

[JazzBassTbird]

No one else seems to have a problem getting properly aged maple, it's not in short supply at all. I find it hard to believe that Fender would. Repairmen I've talked to over the years say Fenders don't have an unusual amount of neck or truss rod problems.

Quartersawn is not stronger than flatsawn. Either type has its advantages and disadvantages.

If properly seasioned maple is not in sort supply, then it might be the quality of the maple itself. Before the '70s, it was probably a lot of old growth wood, possibly air dried naturally over a period of years. After that, the wood isn't old growth and is kiln dried...that's a big difference.
I beg to differ about 1/4 sawn not being stronger than flat sawn. The grain's standing on end an a 1/4 sawn neck, MUCH stronger. Over the years, no. Fender necks are pretty good before the late '60s, then you see some necks with "ski slopes" or Rising Tongue, as Dan Erlewine calls it. Of course, the rod doesn't do anything that far up the neck anyway, so it's not a truss rod issue.

Almost every newer Fender neck I see with a vintage style truss rod at the body adjuster requires spacers because the rod has to be quite tight.

[dadagoboi]

JBT, I share your opinion on this, especially kiln drying vs. air drying.  The Menominee Indians have been sustainably growing hard maple for over since 1908.  The major change in production has been the drying process  which stresses the green lumber when done too quickly.

I was also taught that quartersawn wood is more resistant to warping with changes in moisture as well as bringing out the figure in maple and white oak.

[Dave W]

If properly seasioned maple is not in sort supply, then it might be the quality of the maple itself. Before the '70s, it was probably a lot of old growth wood, possibly air dried naturally over a period of years. After that, the wood isn't old growth and is kiln dried...that's a big difference.
I beg to differ about 1/4 sawn not being stronger than flat sawn. The grain's standing on end an a 1/4 sawn neck, MUCH stronger. Over the years, no. Fender necks are pretty good before the late '60s, then you see some necks with "ski slopes" or Rising Tongue, as Dan Erlewine calls it. Of course, the rod doesn't do anything that far up the neck anyway, so it's not a truss rod issue.

Almost every newer Fender neck I see with a vintage style truss rod at the body adjuster requires spacers because the rod has to be quite tight.

First, you're assuming your experiences apply to all Fenders. That's no more valid than if I assumed that no Fender necks ever had problems because I've never had one with a problem (and I bought my first one 49 years ago). Now, if we had a survey of authorized Fender dealers who do their own in-house repairs, and if they reported more Fender necks coming back for warranty problems than other brands, then there would be a known problem.

Fender never used old growth wood or air dried wood. You would have to go back to the 1920s or earlier to find either in large commercial quantities.

AFAIK most repair experts think ski-slope neck is a truss rod issue coming from years of the traditional (Gibson design) truss rod holding the neck fibers in compression for years. It's certainly not limited to Fender or to maple, and to say it didn't appear until the late 60s is just plain wrong.

Flatsawn vs. quartersawn: wood properties aren't subject to debate. You should download the Forest Products Laboratory (USDA) Wood Handbook: Wood As An Engineering Material (link), especially chapters 3, 4 and 5. Wood strength tests are based on the type and direction of force applied, usually in relation to the grain direction, regardless of whether the wood is flatsawn or quartersawn.