European City / Epiphone Rivoli / mystery solved

Bart! · March 03, 2011, 05:24:34 AM

The "added value" in this Rivoli bass is that is you can track it down to a certain point in time, used by Tony Reeves and the bass can be heared on certain records. You should restore it to the way it was at that time.
The violin shape has no part in that story (as far as we know). Unless there is great story to be told about the violin-isation there is no reason not to restore it.

the mojo hobo · March 03, 2011, 05:35:50 AM

I would leave it just as it is. It has a history.

PhilT · March 03, 2011, 06:30:36 AM

Quote from: Freuds_Cat on March 03, 2011, 01:02:18 AM
What would you do if it were a building?

I know the answer to that.

In our house we have part of a base cruck, a huge piece of timber dating from the early 14th C, part of a mediaeval hall house that stood on the site. Somewhere around the 17th C, someone with the Tudor equivalent of a chain saw hacked the end off it, because it was in the way of their new staircase. Now, even if we wanted to, there's no way of restoring that. The original wood is long gone, along with the 700 years of soot and seasoning that would have been on it. So, we're grateful for the bit we've got.

Going back to the bass, the fact that it was turned into a violin bass is as much part of its history as its time in John Mayall's band.

uwe · March 03, 2011, 07:04:18 AM

I agree - the mod is so radical and off the wall. There is probably no other bass like it. On earth.

BTW: Is the sustain block still inside? In that case it would in fact now be more of a solidbody!

godofthunder · March 03, 2011, 08:05:32 AM

Quote from: Bart! on March 03, 2011, 05:24:34 AM
The "added value" in this Rivoli bass is that is you can track it down to a certain point in time, used by Tony Reeves and the bass can be heared on certain records. You should restore it to the way it was at that time.
The violin shape has no part in that story (as far as we know). Unless there is great story to be told about the violin-isation there is no reason not to restore it.

There is no way to restore this bass without rebuilding the body, to do this you will have to discard much of the existing body and in the process remove it's history.

godofthunder · March 03, 2011, 08:36:38 AM

Quote from: PhilT on March 03, 2011, 06:30:36 AM
I know the answer to that.

In our house we have part of a base cruck, a huge piece of timber dating from the early 14th C, part of a mediaeval hall house that stood on the site. Somewhere around the 17th C, someone with the Tudor equivalent of a chain saw hacked the end off it, because it was in the way of their new staircase. Now, even if we wanted to, there's no way of restoring that. The original wood is long gone, along with the 700 years of soot and seasoning that would have been on it. So, we're grateful for the bit we've got.

Going back to the bass, the fact that it was turned into a violin bass is as much part of its history as its time in John Mayall's band.

That your house has timber from the 14C is amazing tell us more please! Pictures!

eb2 · March 03, 2011, 09:24:54 AM

Where is the difference between that and parting it out? It won't be the same bass then.

The difference is you are restoring it to what it was supposed to be, before a goof ball did something batsh!t to it. If the neck broke, you could repair it or replace it. If the pickup shorted, you could rewind it or replace it. If someone took the bridge off, get a correct bridge. This is just the body - same thing. I guess to me it is a crime to have done that, and leave it like that. The purchase was based on the idea that it was good only for parts, based on the butcher work. So in this one, Einstein chopped 3/4 of the body off. Get a donor body, and make a whole Ravioli. Doc Bass has done more Herculean work. Not easy, but not impossible.

PhilT · March 03, 2011, 11:08:57 AM

Don't you think, though, that the body is the essence of the bass, whereas the other bits are just ... bits.

A Tbird body with a Fender neck is still recognizably a Tbird, whereas a Jazz body with a TBird neck is ... ok, someone's going to say "a Victory". You know what I mean.

I just think changing the body changes the bass in a way other parts don't.

Highlander · March 03, 2011, 12:50:15 PM

I've done some pretty disgusting things to instruments over the years, but I've always considered the neck to be pretty much sacrosanct...

eb2 · March 03, 2011, 02:04:14 PM

QuoteDon't you think, though, that the body is the essence of the bass, whereas the other bits are just ... bits.

Sure - all basses are bits. Even a Tbird. If someone hit a T-bird with a sledgehammer, and knocked off one of the wings, then you would want to repair that bit, no? Much like this thing, you don't have to. But in that instance, and this thing, it is doable. I think sawing off chunks of an ES body to make a moronic violin shape changes the bass into something fairly wrong headed in nature. But, much as if one were to back up an f-150 over the body of an EB-2, the damage can be repaired. You remove the neck - which is glued in anyway - and glue it onto a new body. My initial point was Jules ruled that out as an option, whereas I think that is a conclusion that overlooks the ease in which it could be done.

PhilT · March 03, 2011, 05:35:40 PM

Quote from: godofthunder on March 03, 2011, 08:36:38 AM
That your house has timber from the 14C is amazing tell us more please! Pictures!

Rather than clutter this thread, it's here http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=5310.0

godofthunder · March 04, 2011, 06:57:47 AM

Anything is restoreable. I didn't have to remove much material for this restoration but I sure had to add a lot!

nofi · March 04, 2011, 07:35:38 AM

you don't rebuild or rewrite history. beside this bass has an interesting 'proffesional' story that goes with it. not just another project by anybody.

PhilT · March 04, 2011, 10:01:07 AM

Quote from: nofi on March 04, 2011, 07:35:38 AM
you don't rebuild or rewrite history. beside this bass has an interesting 'proffesional' story that goes with it. not just another project by anybody.

Agreed. The metaphysical point I was groping towards is that the spirit/mojo/soul of a bass is in the body. So whatever's left of the body, that's what lay in the back of a van listening to John Mayall snoring. You replace that with another body, it may look like the original, but it's not that bass.

Would you believe I'm an atheist?

godofthunder · March 04, 2011, 10:17:05 AM

Quote from: PhilT on March 04, 2011, 10:01:07 AM
Agreed. The metaphysical point I was groping towards is that the spirit/mojo/soul of a bass is in the body. So whatever's left of the body, that's what lay in the back of a van listening to John Mayall snoring. You replace that with another body, it may look like the original, but it's not that bass.

Would you believe I'm an atheist?

I agree with the above I am not trying to make a case for a new body, I would leave it as is.