difference between Vintage & Current basses?

Freuds_Cat · February 20, 2011, 04:31:41 AM

I read through this thread and as I read each members comments I was saying to my self "yes" and "thats right" or "Exactly, he's nailed it". Then I realised that I was agreeing with contradictory comments.

I play a variety of passive, active, single coil and humbucker basses. Mostly, I might as well have them all hard wired and forget about tone and volume pots. I try and get the broadest available sound from each bass during setup. Then I simply change the way I play to get the sounds I need. One song I will flick my right fingers down on the strings above the top frets making it fret bounce and twang in a Geddy Lee type sound. Another song I will play evenly over the middle pup and squeeze the notes out giving me a very warm and round sound. Another variation is to play hard over the back pup in a more staccato manner giving me more bark and attack. Or I can squeeze down in an aggressive way over the middle pup giving a more vintage midrange growl. In this sense I agree with Dave, its how you play that determines your sound to a large degree.

That said!

I still believe after 30 years of playing that wood is the staring point of your sound followed by pups. Then its weather or not you are using a tube preamp stage or SS. I use (mainly) an Ampeg SVP-PRO (sometimes an SWR IOD which gives me output stage type distortion from 2 EL84's) with good quality tubes. I totally believe that tubes have one of the biggest effects on my sound/tone. The tubes allow me to play clean fast notes when I modify my technique to suit, and warm fat notes again by changing my technique and then all the other variations I have already mentioned. Its the tubes that will give me that extra compression and growl when I attack the strings or the warm richness by playing lighter and smoother over the middle pup.
With the exception of a few amps like the SVT and its ilk the rest is just about increasing the volume of a good sound through (in my case) class D digital amplifiers.

I complicate matters a little by running a bi-amp system which allows me to use the crossover as a virtual cab selector by changing the selected crossover frequency.

For me its a mixture of old and new technology that allows me ultimately to change between a modern sound and a vintage sound by using my fingers rather than anything else.

rahock · February 20, 2011, 08:53:59 AM

Ultimately, Dave and PBG hit it on the head. It's all about the player. When I play a modern active PU bass, the first thing I do is fart around for a few minutes and pretend I'm Stanley Clarke, but when it's time to actually play something, I fumble around with the controls and try to dumb it down as much as I can to make it sound like my 51 or 70 P

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It's funny when the guy who owns the bass is giving me a crash course on how to get more of this and more of that by tweeking in the controls and my only question for him when he is done is, "how do I make it go away"?

Dumbing it down is the only way to get what I like, so for my purposes , I see no need to spend a lot of money on a bass with a lot of features that I don't use or want.
A lot of modern bass players are kind of OK with playing my 70 P but my 51 they absolutely hate because it's too "primitive". I'm very understanding of different opinions and I don't knock anyone for what they like or dislike. I'm pretty used to being a minority and just about anything that comes out of my mouth is not going to be the popular opinion

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Rick

Highlander · February 20, 2011, 09:04:32 AM

You are definitely not alone... as I've pointed out before I dump controls to minimise interference with the signal... on the Peter Cook I've even bypassed the volume pots... the RD Artist I'm (sloooowly) rebuilding will just have the neck pup running through a single 500k pot - nothing else...

There appears to be a common agreement that the player makes the style...

rahock · February 20, 2011, 10:52:25 AM

Ah, Kenny you're my kind of guy

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I flash back to geting ten minutes of instruction on how to use the controls on a guys hot rod active bass, then he wanted to try my 51 P. As he strapped it on , I pointed to the two controls I told him "that one makes it louder and that other one does something else". He looked at me like I was retarded

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Rick

Dave W · February 20, 2011, 01:43:07 PM

Bypassing all controls (active or passive) is fine if that's what gets you your sound and makes you happy. OTOH you do use the controls on your amp. And on-the-bass controls are just different versions of what you can do on your amp's control panel.

Highlander · February 20, 2011, 02:54:08 PM

True, but in my case on my own Hiwatt, guess what - everything set at max, just the volumes getting played with, and the 50/100 watt switch - If I finally run the PC in stereo I could always use the balance control between the two inputs... works for me...

(hmm... that MAG300 has got more controls than you could shake a hat at and I've yet to run the beast in anger, and I've just quit the band I was in, so...

)

Pilgrim · February 20, 2011, 04:06:36 PM

I find that a passive bass with flats or very old rounds is a good starting point for me. I run it into my Gena-Benz Shuttle and make almost no EQ adjustments. I run the preamp high to get some sound out of the 12AX7 tube, but that's about it.

I think generally I'm oriented to what most wound consider a "vintage" sound. I prefer playing finger-style, but I'm learning to use a pick more proficiently on numbers that require a lot of attack in the notes or have sustained fast passages.

If I think about the "Seinfeld theme" style of slap bass, I consider that a modern style, and one which I really have no desire to play.

dadagoboi · February 20, 2011, 05:29:12 PM

Quote from: Pilgrim on February 20, 2011, 04:06:36 PM

If I think about the "Seinfeld theme" style of slap bass, I consider that a modern style, and one which I really have no desire to play.

I believe that's a keyboard.

Dave W · February 20, 2011, 08:16:38 PM

Yep, definitely a keyboard. I wouldn't like it if it were played on a real bass.

Maybe on a tuba, though.

Chaser001 · February 20, 2011, 08:38:47 PM

I'm a Seinfeld fan and have watched probably all the episodes several times. That (keyboard) bass is annoying. I suppose it fits, but a lot of other stuff would have fit better, IMO.

Hornisse · February 20, 2011, 08:46:29 PM

I remember back in the late 1990's I'd brought my Steinberger L2 to rehearsal and did some slap stuff to warm up and the guys all said, "Oooh, Seinfeld bass!"

Freuds_Cat · February 20, 2011, 10:32:21 PM

reasonably sure its a Yamaha DX7

lowend1 · February 20, 2011, 11:54:26 PM

Vintage TV bass - "Barney Miller"

Freuds_Cat · February 21, 2011, 04:34:45 AM

Quote from: lowend1 on February 20, 2011, 11:54:26 PM
Vintage TV bass - "Barney Miller"

man i loved that theme even before i started playing bass.

dadagoboi · February 21, 2011, 06:41:15 AM

From TB
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f28/seinfeld-theme-bassplayer-17234/

"In Bass Player Magazine's 10th Anniversary issue, in the article "Will Lee's 10 Favorite TV Themes That Feature Cool Bass Lines", Jonathan Wolf is credited with the Seinfeld theme. He was the musical director on The Arsenio Hall show.

10. Northern Exposure (David Schwartz)
09. Barretta, "Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow" (Chuck Rainey)
08. S.W.A.T. (Scott Edwards)
07. Fat Albert (Unknown)
06. Seinfeld (Jonathan Wolf)
05. Ironsides (Chuck Rainey)
04. Sanford & Son (Chuck Rainey)
03. Courageous Cat (Unknown)
02. Barney Miller (Jim Hughart)
01. Peter Gunn (Unknown)"

difference between Vintage & Current basses?

Chaser001

Hornisse