difference between Vintage & Current basses?

[Denis]

Ack, thanks for posing those questions! I've wondered about the same things but never really THOUGHT about them they way you have.
Everyone's answers are damn informative!

My '75 P-bass is beat up and is not very loud compared to the other basses I have but sounds terrific and with the flats really does fit the "vintage" bill. Funny too is how similar my G&L LB100 sounds to the Fender but still different. I have no doubt if the G&L had flats the two basses could readily swap out for each other and still present the same feeling and sound while still having their own personalities.

This subject is pretty interesting, really!

[rahock]

This is a good thread . It's something that is often talked about but seldom actually defined.
My 70 P is sort of a vintage piece but still fairly capable of a more modern sound (pickup is pretty strong for passive and it gets very low). Still, it's not like an active pickup. My 51 P RI is strictly a vintage sound. The pickup is not real strong and loud but it has a nice old school tone that is more akin to an upright than a modern electric sound.
I'm going to a jam tonight where there will likely be an  expensive active pickup modern hot rod bass or two. I am always asked to try them out and I do. They are fun to play with, very strong and cut through exremely well, but to me, they have so much presence I feel like I should be in solo mode the whole time I'm playing them. Solo mode is just not the way I play and I can't wait to get my old Fenders back in my hands and play some good old fashioned walking lines.
I like the way the modern active stuff cuts but when I listen to the playback I actually like the sound and the way the vintage passive stuff blends into the mix. Old dog and new tricks don't often mix .
Rick

[Chaser001]

You Americans are so lucky with your ultra-cheap SX toys.

It's true that it isn't hard to get an SX in the U.S.  But you do have to order them from Rondo Music.  In some countries, you can buy an SX bass from a music store.  If SX is sold in any music stores in the U.S., I'm not aware of it. 

[nofi]

vintage tone to me is a fender or similar bass with flats through fifteen inch speakers. fingers or picks accepable. "modern' tones don't interest me enough to have an other than cynical opinion about it. i do notice that modern sound on truck commercials, though. it must sound very manly and aggresive to those madison avenue types.

[rahock]

"Agressive" is a good word to describe the modern sound. Like I said, if you're in solo mode that aggressive edge can be a good thing, but that's really not so much my thing. When I get the urge for that aggressive edge my 70P has enough of a treble punch to get what I'm looking for.
A while back I got my hands on an Alembic (may see it tonight) and it was very aggressive , with all kinds of cutting power and I did get a kick out of it. The bottom line is........ it just wasn't me. Outstanding piece of work, just not me. I'm a blues guy with a bit of jazz and rockabilly mixed in, where every line is a walking line and infrequent solos are short breaks or a little stretching out that usually blends with, rather than disrupts the tempo of the song.Ya' know, like the old timers do .

If you're a real solo freak or even if you do a lot of single note stuff that requires a boatload of sustain and real aggressive dominating  presence, the modern active pickup sound is probably just what you need.
Rick

[Chaser001]

Although certainly there are some talented people who prefer it, I've always found the modern sound to be pretty boring. 

[godofthunder]

 Vintage tone to me can mean many things. Jamerson, McCartney, Entwhistle, Dunnaway, Squire, Lea. All using passive basses through mainly tube amps though some great tones were gotten with SS gear. Flat wound, roundwound pick or fingers. Imho the modern sound started around '76 when it seemed the bottom and charecter  dropped out of a lot of bass recordings as the trend was for cleaner and cleaner tone, the bass also seemed to shift to the background. This is a generalization of course but I remember clearly back in '76 or so I didn't like where bass was headed.

[godofthunder]

Some examples of my favorite vintage tones. and JAE Live at Leeds forgive the rock band example but the bass audio is fantastic on this

[godofthunder]

Oh what the heck one more JAE

[ack1961]

Guys, this is awesome - the responses are all so demonstrative that I really think I've got a grip on what was a very puzzling subject for me...and apparently, Denis (must be a Raleigh thing).

Rick's response above regarding the modern/active basses cutting through the mixes so "well" really defined the modern sound for me. I also agree that there is a time and place for that modern sound, but it's almost too clean & clear for me to care for too much.

I have learned a ton from this thread...and I even found a Beatles song I can stand!  Thanks to all - the music is great.  This thread also reminded me that I need to convert some old Slade LP's to digital to keep on the iPod.  Just gotta find 'em.

[godofthunder]

Slade ! God I love 'em! Jim Lea is one of the most underrated bassists of the era!

[Dave W]

I still say it's the player, not the bass. Paul McCartney's Wal and JAE's Alembics were active and supposedly "modern" as are Jack Bruce's Warwick I mentioned previously. Does Geddy Lee sound less modern with a Rick or a J than a Wal? I don't think so.

Clean, clear sounds were certainly popular back in the day. Joe Osborn and Carol Kaye used flats but their sounds certainly were clear even if you couldn't hear that well on your AM car radio.

Modern sound is aggressive? Compared to what? Plenty of 60s and 70s bass sounds were aggressive (again, JAE for example).

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I think the "modern" bass sound was birthed with the Music Man Stingray, but it was a long gestation. There are plenty of "vintage sounding" records that used pre-EB Stingrays: Rick James -"Superfreak," most of Stevie Wonder's 70's catalog, etc. When pop music became dominated by keyboard bass in the early 80's, pop bassists began dialing in a lot more upper mids and highs to create bass sounds not easily duplicated by the synths of the day and the most accessible active bass at that time was the Stingray, so a Stingray with dimed highs became the norm.

Also around that time, bassists like Jaco and Stanley Clark began to play the bass as a harmonically lead instrument making round low mids and lows less important than a strong upper-midrange voice. Add Flea's slap funk and RHCP's mega popularity to the mix and music-fan kids came to accept the idea of bass being front and center. As bass playing became more populist and not just the red-headed stepchild refuge of failed guitar players, lots of people began gravitating to more "modern" voiced instruments and amps, and like a lot of things in the 80's, it was well overdone. In general, I find that beginning players like modern voicings and as they "mature" as players, they move more towards "older" sounds.

...of course, this doesn't even begin to address amplification, which figures in very strongly in its own right.

[Basshappi]

I agree, I think that amplification, vast improvement of PA systems and digital recording/playback have more to do with the "modern" bass sound than the instruments themselves.

Furthermore, I do not hold with the idea that vintage tonality and playing only within the traditional role is somehow more "mature" or valid than the "modern" sound and the expansion of the bass guitar into more encompassing roles. Just like the guitar before it, the bass is finally being realized as a complete instrument capable of the full range of musical expression. I for one applaud this evolution and it saddens me to see the on-going divisivness amongst the bass community. There is plenty of room for everyone at the table.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

My comment was more observation than endorsement. I spent many years working in music stores. The newbies ALWAYS went straight to scooped mid "smilie-face" EQ on the active basses and amps and proceeded to atonally beat the living shit out of whatever poor bass they picked up trying to cop the latest Korn or Limp Bizkit slap lick at earbleed volume for sometimes hours. Those who stuck with playing awhile or had been playing for years would walk in and pick up a bass, they would try it unplugged, and then, if they liked it, it went into an amp at moderate volume. Kids would abuse the Korean active import basses for hours and a serious player would buy a $1K+ bass after about ten minutes, tops.

Just so you understand, while I'm a firm tube amp nut, I like basses that sound good, period. Out of my 19 basses, five are active, including my beloved Stingray bought new in 2000. I sound like me on all them. While I find many active EQ basses bland and nasal, I also find many revered passive basses to be the same. Good sound and tasteful play are not mutually exclusive entities; half the "secret of tone" is knowing what to play when and how.