Custom builders - a lifetimes work - how much can a luthier build...?

Highlander · December 08, 2010, 02:27:58 PM

Something has occurred recently that made me think seriously about how prolific can a luthier be...?

Someone who is effectively a one-man-band, or maybe with an occasional assistant, working full-time out of their shop... how many quality instruments could they build in a year, in a lifetime...?

This is a genuine question of curiosity...

Does anyone know anything about this...? we have some people with experience of building and of the industry...? anyone ever thought about this...?

birdie · December 08, 2010, 09:37:08 PM

My friend Ed considers twenty an attainable goal if you work 14 hours a day. Everyday. No CNC, no automation.

Freuds_Cat · December 08, 2010, 10:20:16 PM

Bruce Johnson would be a good one to ask methinks. I would guess that few outposters would have an idea of Bruce's output.

Big_Stu · December 09, 2010, 06:20:58 AM

I read quite recently that John Birch in his "classic era" - roughly 1972-1980 built approximately 1000 guitars. But he had at least two; Arthur Baker & John Diggins, working for him for at least half that time. I also know of at least two others that worked there for part of that time too. JD went his own way around '75/76.

nofi · December 09, 2010, 06:48:38 AM

somehow i figured bruce could make roughly one bass a month, about 12 a year by himself. this is working 'normal' hours and not putting in 14 hour days, 7 days a week. i am probably wrong, though.

jumbodbassman · December 09, 2010, 09:35:28 AM

Quote from: nofi on December 09, 2010, 06:48:38 AM
somehow i figured bruce could make roughly one bass a month, about 12 a year by himself. this is working 'normal' hours and not putting in 14 hour days, 7 days a week. i am probably wrong, though.

Bruce still fills in his day with other work from disney and other builders to pay the bills so he will tell you 12 a year but is more like 6. he is meticulous which slows him down and is always re-engineering stuff. my bass was held up 2 - 3 months from its expected date , which was set only a month out, because as construction went on - he changed the rods in the mystery pickup, changed one of the finishes he uses and needed to make a bridge as his inventory system was wrong. so he had to mill at from scratch in brass then send out for plating. from build queue to finish was more ike 6 months...Bruce is probably not a great example. When used to hang out at Fodera's shp in Bklyn back in the early 80's Vinny was able to produce about 24 basses a year between himself and his 2 partners atr the time - one was sales/setup/ one was bulk woodwork only and electronics and he did the rest.

Highlander · December 09, 2010, 06:00:05 PM

I pondered this due to the lettering on the back of my Demetriou, and for other reasons...

It's a quality versus quantity thing...

Barklessdog · December 10, 2010, 05:43:33 AM

Darrin Huff delivered his first bass in 7 years. I am going on 3 1/2 years waiting.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256053&highlight=darrin+huff

birdie · December 10, 2010, 08:25:09 AM

Maybe I've shared this before;

Q-How many Luthiers does it take to change a light bulb?
A-Just one. But you have to wait two years!!

nofi · December 10, 2010, 09:50:14 AM

no bass is worth a 3 year + wait with no end in sight. get your deposit if you can and forget it. this bothers

me that you are willing to wait forever and your builder seems not to give a shit. of well...

Barklessdog · December 10, 2010, 10:39:58 AM

It's not really a matter of waiting forever. He has no real money, lost his car, house & wife. He lives in his shop. This was verified by one of the persons waiting that went & saw him. Yes, we could prosecute him, but for me the time & negative energy to put into it is not worth my time right now. Getting blood from a rock and then paying legal fees etc on top of it.

I'm too busy with work & family to go after someone out of state. Something like this can really fill someone with hate, that can be all consuming. To prosecute him would just be about vengeance, not recouping losses.

If everyone wants to do a class action lawsuit, I would sign on to it. The worst part was it was a dream bass you analize over the details. It's really a painful experience. Even if ever did deliver, the pain of the whole thing just ruins anything.

Highlander · December 10, 2010, 12:04:41 PM

I just can't imagine you going for a boutique instrument...

The guy that makes the Ampeg Scroll "tributes" - how many does he/has he produced...?

jumbodbassman · December 10, 2010, 12:14:09 PM

I have #70. he finished #71 same time as mine. He also produced 5 short scale basses SSB in the early 2000's. Since he started building, my guess late 90's, he has produced 76 basses. In his defense he does a fair amount of ampeg bass refinishing of the original basses so that takes up a fair amount of time. From what i gather #72 and 73 are not yet finished. i received by bass last week of june....

here is a picture of #70 and SSB #5 which i recently got from Bill....

Highlander · December 10, 2010, 12:26:03 PM

Could you imagine going to a meeting with that kind of business model...

People do this sort of thing because they are driven to it by something most of will only dream about...

Are there any other of us that have anything else from limited luthiers that know anything about there output...? I presume Darrin Huff is an exception to the rule, whatever the circumstances...

Dave W · December 10, 2010, 12:37:35 PM

Quote from: Barklessdog on December 10, 2010, 10:39:58 AM
It's not really a matter of waiting forever. He has no real money, lost his car, house & wife. He lives in his shop. This was verified by one of the persons waiting that went & saw him. Yes, we could prosecute him, but for me the time & negative energy to put into it is not worth my time right now. Getting blood from a rock and then paying legal fees etc on top of it.

I'm too busy with work & family to go after someone out of state. Something like this can really fill someone with hate, that can be all consuming. To prosecute him would just be about vengeance, not recouping losses.

If everyone wants to do a class action lawsuit, I would sign on to it. The worst part was it was a dream bass you analize over the details. It's really a painful experience. Even if ever did deliver, the pain of the whole thing just ruins anything.

As you wish, but if I were in your shoes, I would have been pressing for criminal charges long ago. If what I've read is true, he has taken many thousands of dollars from customers and has never delivered their basses or guitars. If he spent their money and won't/can't return it immediately on request, that's criminal. Class action lawsuit may not get you anywhere but criminal charges tend to get the person's attention.

If you've been waiting 3 1/2 years, that means you placed an order after his situation became public knowledge. There were already people who had been waiting four or five years for their basses. Did you think he was a stand-up guy just because he was a poster at the Pit? I don't understand that.

OTOH people like Jay Monterose at Vintique and Ken Bebensee are still actively soliciting customers despite their reputaions. And probably still getting business. David Hannum was right.