Author Topic: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?  (Read 5097 times)

Aussie Mark

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2010, 03:15:39 PM »
As much as a dirtbag as the guy seems to be, he's only the recipient of this info, and is using his site to make things public.  He set up the site to serve as a voice for whistleblowers everywhere.  Brandon Manning, the US soldier that did the actual downloading of the files, should be the focus of full scrutiny and prosecution.

+1

Assange is merely doing what any other media person would do if they had access to the info provided by Manning.
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Psycho Bass Guy

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2010, 03:55:06 PM »
Attacking the media only serves the interests of those who wish to keep the masses ignorant and easily controlled.  The only ethical behavior germane to this discussion is that of the release of the information. Weigh the value of this information against some very deliberately harmful, politically motivated disclosures (cough... Scooter Libby... cough... fallguy for Cheney...cough). This information was ultimately released to inform the public of things that were neither secrets nor strategically important.

PFC Manning violated his orders and should, and most likely will, face a court martial for that, but Assange's background has no bearing. I worked in the mass media for many years. They are for the most part, spoiled and lazy, but there are among them a group of true believers who sincerely try to uphold the public trust. Silencing that voice is far greater threat to liberty and security than any leak they have ever published.

dadagoboi

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2010, 04:05:47 PM »
Silencing that voice is far greater threat to liberty and security than any leak they have ever published.
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drbassman

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2010, 05:27:40 PM »
If every spy publishes the secrets they steal, does that make them a journalist?
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the mojo hobo

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2010, 05:41:11 PM »

PFC Manning violated his orders and should, and most likely will, face a court martial for that,
 

He should face a firing squad for treason.

the mojo hobo

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 05:44:43 PM »
And Wikileaks... They are no different than any of the so called journalists who quote from sources who can't be identified because they are not authorized to talk about the subject.

Psycho Bass Guy

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 05:52:05 PM »
If every spy publishes the secrets they steal, does that make them a journalist?

In the most vague sense of the word, yes, but you and I both know you're trying to build a strawman argument with that question. Only in the most equally vague sense of the word was PFC Manning a "spy." Journalists rely on many sources, some of them unsavory or downright disgusting. That in no way diminishes the importance of the information they present.

 The Wikileaks information was not a 'secret,' no matter its classification, and even SecDef Gates said that at worst, the fallout from this incident would be moderate. The bottom line is that it's supposed to be my damn government working for me, not the other way around. The average citizen does not need access to truly sensitive information regarding security and international politics, but by the same token, the government does not have cart blanche to simply classify any potentially embarassing information out of self-interest and journalists have a right to pursue the public's interest. It's one of the few issues the Supreme Court has consistently ruled on numerous times in recent history.

Psycho Bass Guy

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2010, 05:57:15 PM »
He should face a firing squad for treason.

If the information truly endangered the lives of anyone, then certainly, but there are other more appropriate punishments for what he did. The UCMJ does not do away with protection against excessive punishment.

Quote
And Wikileaks... They are no different than any of the so called journalists who quote from sources who can't be identified because they are not authorized to talk about the subject.

...and what is the problem with that? 

eb2

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2010, 07:09:07 PM »
I tend fall into the nebulous middle on this. I think the wayward PFC deserves military-level punishment, but then I would want a military investigation into what level of incompetence allowed this doofus access to classified material.  Firing squad?  I suppose Pvt Slovak would make an argument for the possibility.  I tend to not favor death sentences for anyone but child molestors, and if we don't do that, then I can't see it.  But if at best he embarrasses the current administration ( any worse than their ..cough..own amazing incompetence does) then perhaps a lengthy stay in cell would be more appropriate.  He is a jerk, but the punishment should fit his motivation and results of his actions.  As far as I can see, no one is dead here.  In general this stuff is water cooler level, and maybe a refreshing reminder that you don't have to possess a lot of intellect to work in the state department.

As for Wikileaks, and Assange, these people have existed for ages, and "the press" sometimes cooperates with them, and sometimes doesn't. Whatever biases they may have, this stuff getting out is news.  And Wikileaks circumvents the standard outlets, anyway.  So reporting it happened is news.  It may be a service in plugging up the leaks.  It is fair game to attack the press when they don't report on information that they would prefer to suppress for political favors or run stuff they know is bogus for the same reasons. Just ask Dan Rather.
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dadagoboi

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 07:41:33 PM »
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Interesting that in some circles this is considered dangerous but carrying a loaded gun in a bar is not.

Psycho Bass Guy

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 07:55:55 PM »
It is fair game to attack the press when they don't report on information that they would prefer to suppress for political favors or run stuff they know is bogus for the same reasons. Just ask Dan Rather.

...another strawman argument.

I'm sure that among DC media there is some sort of quid pro quo in regards to coverage versus access, but do you honestly believe there is some sort of media conspiracy to garner government support? If there is, it's not working. The FCC has literally destroyed the independent mass media and handed it over to large corporations. If you want to look for government and media collusion, I suggest you examine recent FCC "reinterpretations" of ownership regulations and how many serving industry executives end up in cabinet-level policymaking positions that end up benefiting their bottom line greatly.

It's unfortunate that Dan Rather has ended up as the Right Wing's whipping boy, but the most overlooked fact of his whole situation was not that the information he reported was false, it was that some of the missing documentation was falsified by his producers without his knowledge. The missing info should have been excluded, but the substance of his report, which was that former president George W. Bush was AWOL for most of his National Guard service has been verified many times by many disparate sources.  ...that the White House was able to spin that information to the degree that it did is a testament to the powers of government to easily obfuscate when it suits its interest.

drbassman

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2010, 08:00:32 PM »
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Interesting that in some circles this is considered dangerous but carrying a loaded gun in a bar is not.

Your augment is compelling.  I am a constitutionalist and can't argue your quote above.  So, you got me there.  Carrying a gun is also protected by the constitution, so I don't have problem with that, bar or not.
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Chaser001

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2010, 08:00:38 PM »
I'm in favor of full and open disclosure. The more the better.

Every government is run by liars, and nothing they say should be believed -- I.F. Stone

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer

He who wishes to deceive will never fail to find willing dupes. -- Nicolo Machiavelli

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell

Every time we have a thread like this, no matter how civil it stays, other posting on the forum falls off quite a bit. Every time. It can't be a coincidence. I think it turns some people off and makes some people stay away, maybe for good.



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Aussie Mark

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2010, 08:01:39 PM »
No comments yet about Manning's tranvestite boyfriend?  (according to his Wikipedia entry)
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Mark
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drbassman

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Re: What about Wikileaks and US Foreign Policy Practices?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2010, 08:02:52 PM »
Poor Dan, another victim.
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