Enough is enough already

[Barklessdog]

24 school kids killed this year. That's just in Chicago!
Philadelphia, Cleveland & Detroit all have similar issues.

It's not working, our gun system - sorry

Something has to be done

http://www.blackstarproject.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=38

Death Chases African American Children           
Chicago loses more black kids than soldiers in Iraq to gun violence


May 24, 2007
By Phillip Jackson
Recently in Chicago, a teen gunman boarded a crowded public bus near a high school and opened fire with a handgun. I imagined this scene must have been similar to the bus bombings that are so common in wartorn Iraq.

As I researched this analogy, I found striking similarities between what is happening in black communities across the United States and what is happening in a full-fledged war zone in Iraq. The major difference is that far more black children are dying in Chicago than Chicago soldiers are dying in Iraq.

At about 24 deaths a year, Chicago children are being killed 24 times the rate that Chicago soldiers are being killed in Iraq. Statistics from Military Genealogy Trails show that during the five-year period between September 2001 and July 2006, six soldiers from Chicago were killed in Iraq combat. In a startling comparison, however, during an eight-year period between 1998 and 2007, 190 Chicago Public School children, mostly black, died in gun-related incidents.
This year, the violent death toll in nine months totals 27 for Chicago's public school students, again, mostly black youth.

Either we need to take all the guns away or we need to arm every school kid with an automatic weapon with Kevlar vests, bullet proof busses and armed guard escorts.

Maybe we need the troops & Marshall law at home?

This is just unacceptable. Most people don't care because its inner city poverty/gang related black kids killing each other.

Something has to be done. If we continue to allow kids owning guns, then we need to arm all of them to give them a fair chance to shoot back.

I bet this is not the case in other gun free countries.

[uwe]

It shouldn't go on though violence in black communities is not just a gun thing.  But of course you can ask yourself the question whether males of any race and under 30 years old should be able to hold a gun for private use outside of a rifle range.

Given how much guns are on the black market in the US you would also have to hike prison terms quite a bit for illegal gun trading. And make ammunition almost impossible to get because that is something that black market gun owners will run out sooner or later.

[Barklessdog]

it shouldn't go on though violence in black communities is not just a gun thing.

You're absolutely right. I was listening to public radio, and they had a show about how much of a problem it is. They interviewed kids and teachers at Chicago inner city public schools. Kids who aren't gang members, who just want an education are either shot or bullied into joining gangs. They are afraid to go to school!

The kids said you have to fight people regularly, weather you want to or not. Sometimes a fight happens the kids comes back with a gun. The teachers say it's not their job to be social workers and have to constantly break up fights. It also does not help that a lot of theses kids do not have fathers-many of them go to prison, the mom's work three jobs and is never around.

The whole Rap Gansta image glorifies the lifestyle to young kids.

Most people turn their backs to the problem because it is mostly in poverty stricken inner city neighborhoods and usually gang related.

Still providing them with guns seems like a bad idea to me. They should create what ever steps it takes to get illegal guns off the streets. It just can't go on like this. no one can tell me that more can't be or should be done.

Maybe we need a troop surge in these neighborhoods to police & escort kids back & forth from school. It's a war zone.

[the mojo hobo]

24 school kids killed this year. That's just in Chicago!
Philadelphia, Cleveland & Detroit all have similar issues.

It's not working, our gun system - sorry

Something has to be done

It's not the gun system that is not working. It's the school and justice system that is not working. What's the rap for murder in Chicago? How many death row inmates are waiting on years of appeals? The Justice system needs to be strict and swift.

Laws banning guns cannot be expected to have any better results than laws banning heroin.

[Barklessdog]

True, that's why marshal law should be declared in these neighborhoods, or go door to door getting the guns with the military?

[jmcgliss]

For me this isn't just a distant inner city thing.  I'm a practicing Realtor who may be naive, but helping some of my clients takes me through some troubled neighborhoods. Residential buyers, developers, and commercial businesses shun areas where young males are shuffling aimlessly down every street or hanging out on the corners, so the economies are depressed and school funding tied to property values is messed up. What's more bizarre is to witness this in neighborhoods with good housing stock and well-kept yards.  It's sad because a family with an estate sale property or pending forclosure may not find a buyer.  The counter-reaction to CPD shooting a cougar this week has been "why can't they control violent threats on the streets and in the schools?".  Do I want to carry a handgun for protection? Not, but I certainly don't want to be confronted by one.

[uwe]

No gun law will ever keep organized crime from getting guns and using them. The good thing is that they regularly use them on each other and don't go around shooting in schoolyards.

But for a disenchanted and alienated US youth in a inner city ghetto it is just too easy (and cheap) to get a gun and that has to do with the prevalence they have due to liberal gun laws. To stick with the heroin example: If heroin was freely available to 18 year olds and up, you can bet your ass that there would be even more teenage junkies.

I don't think that a disenchanted and alienated young Turk in a Turkish immigrant ghetto in Berlin or a disenchanted and alienated Pakistani in a Paki immigrant ghetto in the Midlands in England have necessarily more criminal energy than a disenchanted and alienated black kid in the Bronx, but the black kid has a hell of an easier time in obtaining a gun. And you can wreak more havoc with those in a shorter time than with, say, a switchblade you would most likely have to settle for in Berlin or the English Midlands.

Uwe

[Barklessdog]

A 17-year-old Chicago Public Schools student was killed during a dice game on the West Side on Tuesday night.
Marcus Greer was the 21st CPS student fatally shot since the beginning of the school year and the 24th to die violently.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/899946,CST-NWS-teen17.article

[Dave W]

I'll have to disagree that liberal gun laws are the problem. Washington DC has had a handgun ban since 1976 (likely soon to be overturned by the Supreme Court) and yet gun violence there has soared well beyond increases elsewhere.

As long as there's a demand for addictive drugs and as long as our drug laws put the profits in the hands of criminal syndicates, these problems will continue.

And now, for a little levity (from part of a 1993 Showtime parody): http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRAd8AFab5I

[uwe]

"Washington DC has had a handgun ban since 1976"

But that's a microscopic area in a country that knows no surveilled or monitored borders between its states (if you consider DC as a state for sake of argument). Tougher handgun laws in one state won't change anything overall  or do you think the youths will then stop buying illegal ones there because of the prevailing state law? What the liberal gun laws have caused is that there are so many weapons freely available on the black market too.

I know it's a touchy subject for you guys, an amendment right, your own history and concept of freedom etc. But I don't think the US would be a less great (or free) country with a couple of million handguns less. You're free to arm your police and double its manpower if security concerns you.

[Barklessdog]

"Washington DC has had a handgun ban since 1976"

But that's a microscopic area in a country that knows no surveilled or monitored borders between its states (if you consider DC as a state for sake of argument). Tougher handgun laws in one state won't change anything overall  or do you think the youths will then stop buying illegal ones there because of the prevailing state law? What the liberal gun laws have caused is that there are so many weapons freely available on the black market too.

I know it's a touchy subject for you guys, an amendment right, your own history and concept of freedom etc. But I don't think the US would be a less great (or free) country with a couple of million handguns less. You're free to arm your police and double its manpower if security concerns you.

I don't think anyone pro or con does not believe there is not a problem, but something needs to be done. Just saying kids can get guns or drugs should not make one not try to do something.

There has to be a way to punish repeat offending dealers who can be traced back or make it harder to get or transfer a gun.

[OldManC]

I don't think anyone pro or con does not believe there is not a problem, but something needs to be done. Just saying kids can get guns or drugs should not make one not try to do something.

There has to be a way to punish repeat offending dealers who can be traced back or make it harder to get or transfer a gun.

They could start by enforcing existing gun laws and letting the public know they are. Not licensed and you're found with a gun? You go to jail. Use a gun in the commission of a crime? You go to jail. For a LOOOOONG time. Etc, etc...

[Barklessdog]

Another reason to send more blacks to prison!

I read that California are stacking them like firewood, the prisons are so over crowded

But true you have to enforce it. People with mental problems should not be gun owners either !

My son was surprised when we went to London and we did not have to pass through metal detectors like you have to around here (even in schools!)

[nofi]

capital punishment does not deter murder. guns laws don't stop people from getting guns  . no sweeping anti anything laws have ever proved effective. the answer lies with each citizen and their sense of moral responsibility. i get tired of children dying because crack head mommy left her loaded 9mm under the bed. you can't teach people commom sense. i can't cure socity's ills but i can make my little corner of it safe. i have always owned guns and enjoyed shooting but over time they have lost their appeal for many reasons. i still have a few hanguns but since my grandaughter arrived i keep no ammunition. if i can't do anything else but keep her save that's enough for me. i have been in a gunfight before and don't ever want to see that again. but for now i have a very impressive ruger vaquerro .45 paperweight.

[Barklessdog]

Responsible people should be able to own them.

You are right the problem is the homes & environment of these kids-no parents or parents who are kids or relatives who do not give a damm.

I still think putting troops in those areas is a good step. Someone needs to clean up this mess.