Changing the pots on a Bachbird?

Johnbob · June 29, 2010, 05:18:09 PM

So, I have some questions about changing the pots on a Bachbird TH-1. I know the stock pots are pretty crappy but I was wondering what I would gain from upgrading to better pots and a new jack? Obviously I'm assuming it will improve the sound but what would be the difference? Would it be give the bass more bottom end, etc.? I was wondering if changing the pots would affect the output of the pickups? Right now it still has the one pickup but I bought a second artec pickup that I will be installing soon. The output seems pretty low and the pickup sounds kind of muddy too. Will changing the pots help this stuff?

exiledarchangel · June 30, 2010, 01:09:51 AM

Yes, changing the pots, jack and cap with high quality ones would help the sound a little bit, also you will gain better control when you are using the pots and most of all reliability. Those crappy electronics could broke anytime and leave you with a dead bass!

Basvarken · June 30, 2010, 01:31:05 AM

Don't forget to upgrade the cap too. That'll make a bigger difference than the pots. It'll open up the sound.
If you change the pots to CTS; you'll have a better range from 0 to 10, instead of the on/off effect of the cheap ones.

About the Artec. it doesn't sound muddy at all to my ears.
And about the output. It may not be the hottest pickup around, but it is not weak if you ask me.

Johnbob · June 30, 2010, 11:08:17 AM

I don't know much about this stuff so I was wondering if you guys could help me pick the right ones because I'm not sure which ones to get, there seems to be a few options.

So I know I need USA CTS Pots but do I want 500K or 250K? It seems like most of you guys are getting the 500K pots. Also, do I get long shafts or the regular ones? I also see some that say +10% and some that say +20%, which ones do I get? Is CTS the brand name or is that just a type of pot that a bunch of different manufacturers make? If so, what brand do I get? If you guys could send me a link to any of this stuff that would be great.

Also, if you guys could help recommend or post links regarding caps and jacks that would be great too since I know even less about that stuff. I always here the words CTS, Switchcraft, etc. thrown around but I have never had to buy any of that stuff so I'm a little clueless about that stuff.

I'm also going to be converting my bass to a 2 pickup model so do I need 3 pots that are the same and one cap? I want to wire it up just like an original NR Thunderbird because the goal is to make it as close to the original as possible. I know that I have different pickups and it won't be the same but hopefully I will get Lulls one day and make it sound closer to the real thing. Thanks.

exiledarchangel · July 01, 2010, 01:25:04 AM

I agree with Rob, I'd say the Artec is a medium-hot pickup, not hot as hell but hot enough to make your ears bleed!

Humbuckers usually sound better with 500k pots, and single coils with 250k.
You will need normal shaft pots, the long ones are for guitars with thick/carved tops, like Les Pauls.
Also you will need AUDIO (or LOGARITHMIC) pots and not LINEAR ones. Audio pots have better suited "taper" for use in guitars.

Caps are very important, especially if you use your tone pot alot, and not use it like an on-off switch.
Most people use 0.022uF or 0.047uF or even 0.1uF caps. The bigger the cap, the more the cut of highs and the "feel" of more bass when you put your tone cap on "0".

There are two types of caps that you can use, film caps and ceramic. Most instruments use ceramic, they are cheap and gets the job done. But if you want something better (that's just my opinion) use a film cap. I like Mallory 150 series caps. They are well made and not expensive.

I usually get my stuff from Banzai, here are some recomendations:

pots
http://www.banzaimusic.com/CTS-Potentiometer-500k-log.html
jack
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Switchcraft-SC-11.html
cap (ceramic)
http://www.banzaimusic.com/22nF-Ceramic-Cap-5mm.html
http://www.banzaimusic.com/47nF-Ceramic-Cap-5mm.html
http://www.banzaimusic.com/0-1uF-Ceramic-Cap-5mm.html
cap (film)
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Mallory-150-0-022uF.html
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Mallory-150-0-047uF.html
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Mallory-150-0-1uF.html <------ my favourite

There you are, I hope I helped a little bit to clear things up for you!

the mojo hobo · July 01, 2010, 06:31:11 AM

Quote from: Johnbob on June 30, 2010, 11:08:17 AM

I want to wire it up just like an original NR Thunderbird

You will want 500K pots for the volumes, and a 250K for the tone with a .047 uf cap.

Johnbob · July 01, 2010, 02:01:35 PM

Cool, thanks for the responses/help. I wonder now if I should still go for the vintage specs or if I should get the 0.1uF Film caps? The price isn't a factor since they are obviously so cheap. Also, I should have asked this in my original post but which wiring should I use? I also know little about that but I do hear a lot about cloth wiring but I don't know what gauge, brand, colors (if that matters) or how much I will need. Any links or advice about that stuff would also be appreciated. Thanks again for the links and help.

dadagoboi · July 01, 2010, 02:27:05 PM

Quote from: the mojo hobo on July 01, 2010, 06:31:11 AM
You will want 500K pots for the volumes, and a 250K for the tone with a .047 uf cap.

I believe the original was a Sprague 'Orange Drop' cap. Still available. Less than 2 USD. definitely has the vintage look.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sprague+orange+drop+capacitors&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Pilgrim · July 01, 2010, 04:08:26 PM

This is a really handy thread. I have a Bronco and another bass needing some pots and a cap, and having parts ID'd is a great convenience......

dadagoboi · July 01, 2010, 04:24:56 PM

Lot easier in the old days when pots meant CTS and caps meant Sprague.

Johnbob · July 01, 2010, 06:22:15 PM

Great another option...ha..ha. But seriously, does anyone know if the Sprague 'Orange Drop' caps are 0.022uF, 0.047uF or 0.1uF caps? I'm assuming that the Sprague is a 0.047uF cap since some people claim that the originals had 0.047uF caps and then some people claim that they came with Sprague's. Are they film or ceramic? Should I get the Sprague or the Mallory-150-0-1uF.html film cap? I know it's all a matter of taste but I have no idea. I wanted the bass to be modeled after the original NR bird because I have played one and I loved it but maybe they have come a long way with caps since the 60's. And also since I am using Altec pickups it won't sound that way anyway. Someone please make a decision for me..ha..ha.

exiledarchangel · July 02, 2010, 01:15:36 AM

There are Spragues on most usual capacitances, 0.022uF 0.047uF 0.1uF and so on. Spragues are film caps, just like Mallorys. Some people find Orange Drops kinda "hi-fi" but the differences are almost inaudible. I prefer Mallorys for some reason, but Banzai has Orange Drops too, he also has some real expensive caps made of Unobtainium, don't buy those because Alien monsters will eat you alive when they will invade Earth.

You can use this wiring diagram, its for a jazz bass so you have to replace 250k pots for 500k ones.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/support/schematics/std_jazz_bass.jpg

dadagoboi · July 02, 2010, 02:58:07 AM

Quote from: Johnbob on July 01, 2010, 06:22:15 PM
I wanted the bass to be modeled after the original NR bird because I have played one and I loved it but maybe they have come a long way with caps since the 60's. And also since I am using Altec pickups it won't sound that way anyway. Someone please make a decision for me..ha..ha.

It comes down to whether you want to get as close to original as possible. That would be an .047 Sprague "orange drop', 500k CTS pots and Switchcraft jack.

If not, just about anything would be an improvement over the Bach stuff.

Whether or not "improvements" have been made to electronics since the 60's is subjective. Tubes vs SS, vinyl vs MP3, analog vs digital, etc.

drbassman · July 02, 2010, 07:44:32 AM

Quote from: dadagoboi on July 02, 2010, 02:58:07 AM
It comes down to whether you want to get as close to original as possible. That would be an .047 Sprague "orange drop', 500k CTS pots and Switchcraft jack.

If not, just about anything would be an improvement over the Bach stuff.

Whether or not "improvements" have been made to electronics since the 60's is subjective. Tubes vs SS, vinyl vs MP3, analog vs digital, etc.

I use CTS and Sprague for most applications and I think things sound better.

Johnbob · July 02, 2010, 10:08:22 AM

Ok, so we've determined that the original's used a .047 Sprague "orange drop', 500k CTS pots and Switchcraft jack. Some of you claim that a 250k pot for the tone but others claim that they used 500k pots for both the volume and tone pot. Does anyone know for sure? Also if I could get some recommendations for which wire to buy, gauge, color, brand, and how much I will need that would be great. Thanks again to everyone for the super helpful advice and info, I definitely appreciate it. And thanks for the link to the wiring diagram, that was going to be my next question.