Repairing EB-0 headstock crack

[dadagoboi]

I think the more research you do the less likely you will be to use epoxy.  The chemistry behind wood glues is pretty amazing.  That's why a properly glued joint will never break at the glue line.  Anybody had luck with Gorilla Glue?  I bought some but have hesitated to use it.

[Highlander]

I dread to think what they make it from...

[godofthunder]

I think the more research you do the less likely you will be to use epoxy.  The chemistry behind wood glues is pretty amazing.  That's why a properly glued joint will never break at the glue line.  Anybody had luck with Gorilla Glue?  I bought some but have hesitated to use it.

Gorilla glue has its uses but I would stick with Tite Bond on this repair. The gorilla glue expands and will push the crack apart.

[Pilgrim]

I've used Gorilla Glue and it does have its good uses, but I find it hard to visualize where I would use it on a musical instrument.

It expands and foams aggressively, and it has a habit of creeping out of everywhere with even tiny lines of the residue forming hard ridges that are difficult to remove.  It's very messy stuff if you apply even a fraction more than needed - and with the foaming and expansion, I've never found it very practical determine how much is enough.  The point about it pushing the crack apart is well taken, and I think that would be a likely outcome.

However - once it bonds, it REALLY bonds.  Pretty serious stuff.  I've used it to attach oak trim on the front edges of a book case shelves, but I still had to go after expanding material and trim off residue.  I have no idea what solvent - if any - would remove the residue.

Titebond is much friendlier.

[dadagoboi]

Anybody need to repair some gorillas?  I got some glue I ain't using.

[Lightyear]

I agree on the Gorilla Snot - it does work well but is the messiest crap on the face of the planet!  Like was mentioned earlier PVA is the way to go if there is no old glue to hamper the bond.  If it's tainted with old glue then expoy is the way to go and I would go with a good comercial/marine grade at that.

[Pilgrim]

PVA? Not sure of reference.

[Dave W]

PVA = regular wood glue (polyvinyl acetate)

[Pilgrim]

Thanks...suspected that was the case but when you're not sure, ask.

[dadagoboi]

Titebond Original is not PVA, it's aliphatic resin.  White Elmer's is PVA.  PVA 'creeps', joints can actually move over time, aliphatic resin creeps too but less.

Urea-Resin glue is a powder you mix with water and has great wood fiber penetration, strength and gap filling qualities.  Doesn't creep.  Long open time, cleans up with water before it sets.  Sands off easily when dry, doesn't gum up like dry titebond.

Or rather it didn't, I just googled it.  Seems it's no longer made, must have something to do with the formaldehyde in the formula.  Damn you EU!   Last time I used it was on this chair about 25 years ago.  Couldn't have laminated the plys with titebond, not enough open time.  Excuse the non bass content.

 

[Dave W]

Titebond Original is not PVA, it's aliphatic resin.  White Elmer's is PVA.  PVA 'creeps', joints can actually move over time, aliphatic resin creeps too but less.

You're right but if you hang around woodworking forums you'll find that white and yellow wood glues are almost always referred to as PVA regardless of the individual brands, to differentiate them from the other general types like polyurethanes (original Gorilla Glue) epoxies or CA.

The original white glues were called PVA. It's my understanding that aliphatic resin glue is a modified form of PVA, modified for more strength than the original white PVA glues like Elmer's. Not that I'm an adhesives expert.

[dadagoboi]

You're right but if you hang around woodworking forums you'll find that white and yellow wood glues are almost always referred to as PVA regardless of the individual brands, to differentiate them from the other general types like polyurethanes (original Gorilla Glue) epoxies or CA.

The original white glues were called PVA. It's my understanding that aliphatic resin glue is a modified form of PVA, modified for more strength than the original white PVA glues like Elmer's. Not that I'm an adhesives expert.

That's my understanding, too.  I just get crazy about this because I had to deal with it in a China factory that was using cheap PVA (in open glue pots at around 95 degree temp, it goes bad real quick) to glue dining chairs.  The joints kept failing, I attempted to get them to try Titebond and better woodworking and gluing practices to no avail.  Went back to US.  When I returned a month later they showed me this great new glue they were using.  Titebond manufactured in China.

[Pilgrim]

That's my understanding, too.  I just get crazy about this because I had to deal with it in a China factory that was using cheap PVA (in open glue pots at around 95 degree temp, it goes bad real quick) to glue dining chairs.  The joints kept failing, I attempted to get them to try Titebond and better woodworking and gluing practices to no avail.  Went back to US.  When I returned a month later they showed me this great new glue they were using.  Titebond manufactured in China.

Aside (possibly) from patent laws, you have just summarized the next great step in world commerce.

[dadagoboi]

Aside (possibly) from patent laws, you have just summarized the next great step in world commerce.

As usual I screwed up the story...what I tried to tell them was that they needed to use aliphatic resin glue, not PVA.  I accessed Titebond's US site but didn't think to look for a Chinese one.  When I got back they were using genuine Titebond manufactured locally.  This was about 5 years ago, in any case the patent had long run out, Elmer's is making an aliphatic now.  Akzo Nobel, the largest finish manufacturer in the world, is in China as well as just about everybody else still in the wood biz. Or cars or...you name it.  They no longer need to violate every patent.  The big guys anyway.

[Lightyear]

You're right but if you hang around woodworking forums you'll find that white and yellow wood glues are almost always referred to as PVA regardless of the individual brands, to differentiate them from the other general types like polyurethanes (original Gorilla Glue) epoxies or CA.

The original white glues were called PVA. It's my understanding that aliphatic resin glue is a modified form of PVA, modified for more strength than the original white PVA glues like Elmer's. Not that I'm an adhesives expert.

Sorry, is was shorter to type out PVA than the other.  I should have said Elmers.    I prefer it to Titebond and I've used a lot of both brands.

I had a neighbor that went out to the bigbox furniture place and spent $6K on bedroom furniture.  Big, oversized, ugly with an opaque quasi wood grain looking finish on it.  The stuff started to crack with a few months in their house - exposed to the soft mystery wood underneath.  Several of the drawers swelled shut and the finish flaked off on other areas.  Yes, the best French Colonial furniture that China had to offer