Repairing EB-0 headstock crack

[dadagoboi]

I fear the West has seriously underestimated China's ability to make the rapid progress it has, literally from dirt roads to superhighways (and bullet trains) in 10 years.  They will sell you whatever you want and very quickly figure out how to do it to the quality level required.  The will also hit your price point with the best quality that can be provided at that price.  I have been in a Henredon factory in China that was producing furniture indistinguishable from it's North Carolina counterpart and Henredon is considered a very high end brand.  I've also been in many factories that didn't have a clue and they were gone after a while.  Factories in Tupelo, Mississippi churned out some really poor quality, for the most part they are gone.  China produces the quality the Euros demand as well as the junk Americans consume.

I've gotten way off topic, I apologize.

[Lightyear]

China produces............the junk Americans consume.

I've gotten way off topic, I apologize.

My point exactly!  We consume JUNK and then whine when there are no jobs stateside

No need to apologize - you'd be surprised what I've learned on this forum because we wonder off topic

[dadagoboi]

My point exactly!  We consume JUNK and then whine when there are no jobs stateside

+1.  Winners don't whine.

[Highlander]

Think of it like a tapestry, or maybe one of those family quilt's so popular over your side of the Pond, the more varied the story weaved in, the better the journey is remembered... some of us just don't know what staying on thread means...

Those that can deserve this award...

[drbassman]

I'm getting used to it!

[dadagoboi]

I'm unraveled.

[Pilgrim]

Just to re-ravel you, I've been checking urea-resin glues and they're quite available in the US.  It does sound like they might be a good solution for a fix like this.  They're inflexible, don't creep, and fill gaps.  It does sound like residue clean-up might be challenging, and they seem to produce toxic fumes fo care must be used in mixing and application.

I haven't made my mind up yet - I have the luxury of time.

Stew-mac has some good options, of course.  Super Glue doesn't appeal - not enough working time.  Their slow epoxy has 30-minute working time and might be practical; it also has no toxic fumes.

I'm still debating Titebond as I really like wood glues.  I'm trying to decide whether the stress on this repair is at such an angle that creep would be any issue.  A complete headstock break would definitely make creep an issue, but I'm not sure that this crack does.

[Pilgrim]

New information...

Got the tuners off, and found that the crack under the G tuner runs diagonally over to the A string tuner.  I've marked all the crack lines with yellow dots in this photo.  I can move the crack by just grabbing the top of the headstock and twisting my wrist (firmly).  I haven't had time to pursue it very far, as this work was interrupted by other stuff...but it's looking more technical and difficult.  I can't get the long diagaonal crack to open very far.

I'm starting to consider having a luthier tackle this.  I don't mind working on the back side of the headstock, but I don't want to crack this open and end up needing to refin the front.  I'm not confident of my refin skills on the front of the headstock. I think I'll do it myself if I can get that diagonal crack open far enough to get a syringe tip into the crack - but if not, I think I'd rather pay a luthier than make a mistake.  I have multiple cracks to work with, but all will need to be opened and glued in one procedure.



The BadAss bridge is off, and it had a three-screw mount.  I'm not sure whether a Hipshot SuperTone will cover the screw holes, but so far I think that's the direction I'll go.  You can also see from this photo that the post holes are not located straight across the body - the G string side is a bit closer to the headstock than the E string side.  Is that normal for the EB-0 series?  I suspect it is, but don't know.  The object in the G-side post hole is a ground strap.

[dadagoboi]

Just to re-ravel you, I've been checking urea-resin glues and they're quite available in the US.  It does sound like they might be a good solution for a fix like this.  They're inflexible, don't creep, and fill gaps.  It does sound like residue clean-up might be challenging, and they seem to produce toxic fumes fo care must be used in mixing and application.

I haven't made my mind up yet - I have the luxury of time.

Stew-mac has some good options, of course.  Super Glue doesn't appeal - not enough working time.  Their slow epoxy has 30-minute working time and might be practical; it also has no toxic fumes.

I'm still debating Titebond as I really like wood glues.  I'm trying to decide whether the stress on this repair is at such an angle that creep would be any issue.  A complete headstock break would definitely make creep an issue, but I'm not sure that this crack does.

Guitar Player Repair Guide, pages 226-227 (1994 Edition) will answer every glue and headstock repair question and/or confuse you completely.

[Dave W]

The offset post holes are normal. That's part of helping the original bar bridge intonate.

I'm not sure the Supertone will work. The earlier string spacing was slightly different than the later, and I don't think it's designed for the offset posts of the bar bridge. Better consult with them before ordering.

[dadagoboi]

The offset post holes are normal. That's part of helping the original bar bridge intonate.

I'm not sure the Supertone will work. The earlier string spacing was slightly different than the later, and I don't think it's designed for the offset posts of the bar bridge. Better consult with them before ordering.

+1, pre '67 post spacings are different.  You could probably file the supertone to fit but it wouldn't make it any less ugly

[Lightyear]

So what you need is a injectable, thin, glue with a forgiving working time.  Mmmmm.

I will agree that a luthier might be the answer - the problem is can you find a luthier that is really competant and experienced in this repair?  Someone like Mike Dolan comes to mind.  You also run the risk of paying someone that will do a job with far less skill than you will.

Did you determine if there was old glue to contend with?

I think that if you did this yourself you could make cauls for the front/back and sides for effective clamping.  A few practice runs would give an idea of time to set the clamps.  Further, you could experiment with glue thickness,set/working time and the syringes etc.

[dadagoboi]

1994 Prices

[drbassman]

Lots of good advice so far Al.  That is one nasty set of fissures you have there.  Not the usual big break or single fault line.  I'm not sure how I'd approach this one.

[Pilgrim]

Guitar Player Repair Guide, pages 226-227 (1994 Edition) will answer every glue and headstock repair question and/or confuse you completely.

And thanks to your excellent note, I now have the 2007 edition in hand!  Been meaning to pick it up and I appreciate the prompt.  on page 167 it has the same drawing of the jig used to place stress on the crack that is shown in the pages you posted earlier.  Thanks to your prompt, I was near a large bookstore today and picked up the latest edition.

The offset post holes are normal. That's part of helping the original bar bridge intonate.

I'm not sure the Supertone will work. The earlier string spacing was slightly different than the later, and I don't think it's designed for the offset posts of the bar bridge. Better consult with them before ordering.

I'm not sure either.  It helps a LOT to know that the offset post holes are normal, and I think that's the biggest problem.  According to the info I've been able to find online the spacing is right (3 1/4", which is as per the Hipshot spec sheet found at http://www.hipshotproducts.com/files/all/two_point_dimensions_drawing1.pdf ) but the offset may be a show stopper for that bridge.  I have emailed Hipshot asking about the fit for my bass.

Best info I've been able to find online is that the Schaller 460 bridge (not the later models with a letter after the 460) is correct for this app, but they haven't been made for years so the few floating around are going to cost $$.  I've started doing regular searches for one, but if I can't find one, I may resort to a bar bridge.  I don't intend to re-install the BadAss, as I'm not a fan - IMO their biggest contribution is their weight, which does help to balance the EB-0.

Lots of good advice so far Al.  That is one nasty set of fissures you have there.  Not the usual big break or single fault line.  I'm not sure how I'd approach this one.

I can't express how grateful I am for the excellent thoughts and advice given on thie forum.  I really appreciate the expertise you guys share.  I'm going to find out everything I can before deciding whether to tackle this myself.  I realize that this thread has gone on at some length, but I really do respect the instrument and want to do a good, high quality repair that will result in a sound instrument that plays well and looks good. I believe that I can see anything that a guitar pro can see in terms of opening the crack, but I may not interpret it as well as a pro would.  I'm hoping that some of those smaller cracks are just surface finish cracks and not in the wood.  When i get more time to examine it carefully I'll report further.