Last Night in Oberhausen, Germany ...

[uwe]

Demons from our past. Germany is also one of the few countries where Hitler's (largely boring and waffling) Mein Kampf cannot be sold or lent except in annotated excerpts form. It is being discussed whether 65 years after the fall of the Nazi Regime it is not time for a complete release, albeit with an intoduction by scholars to put things in perspective. I'm all for that.

Re SS runes and swastikas, I'm fine that these are outlawed here (as is the Nazi "Sieg Heil!" greeting)  if only to prevent them being flaunted by the few extremist rightwing nutcases we have. I prefer them having to take resort to alternative symbols that echo the old ones, but thankfully cannot replicate them.

I remember that back in the seventies a handful of American Nazis were allowed to mount a truck and drive through a Chicago (or some other city) Jewish neighborhood yelling Nazi crap and obscenities about "world jewdom" etc on to the streets (it was a big thing in the German news at the time). They were dressed in full period-correct Nazi regalia, brown SA uniforms and all. I thought back then and continue to think today that that was taking freedom of speech a bit far (the ACLU had even supported the Nazi protest "out of principle" even though they winced about it and had many members aghast), I don't believe that a holocaust survivor should be forced to face something that bad in taste and despicable in political outlook in his/her neighborhood, freedom of speech or not, if they want to preach Nazi ideology, they can do it comfortably in the middle of a swamp and perhaps invite a few KKK members too.

But I'll probably be up for some vocal opposition even here about that. And not from people who have any sympathies for Nazis either. I see the virtue of the argument that freedom of speech and expression should even apply to obnoxious vermin like that. But it would be unthinkable in Germany and unbearable to most citizens here. A mix of guilt ("ugh, this happened before ..."), outrage ("... how can they ...") and general caution ("... if you tolerate this, your children will be next ...") and I guess I'm comfortable with it.

[Chris P.]

Yes, amazing story!

[uwe]

Don't tell me you didn't know! We've even given up stealing Dutch bikes here.

[OldManC]

I've often thought that freedom of expression should never prevent the speaker from experiencing the freedom of those offended to punch them in the chops for their boorish behavior.

[Barklessdog]

I remember that back in the seventies a handful of American Nazis were allowed to mount a truck and drive through a Chicago

That was in Skokie a large Jewish community on the near Chicago.  If I recall they made a movie about it called "March On Skokie"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie

The movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skokie_(Movie)

[Freuds_Cat]

I dont know about govt laws, (I live in what can only be described as a nanny state) but personally its simple. I excersise my freedom of speech up to the point that I am aware that it hurts other people. I'm obviously talking big issues here not schoolby sniping.

Seems like common sense to me. but as my dad likes to remind me "sense isn't all that common".

[Hornisse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhozx819izU&feature=related

[Chris P.]

'I hate Illinois Nazis'

I've seen that movie over a hundred times. It started my love for soul, Booker T., ..

[Highlander]

Although my daughter has played the soundtrack to death, I don't think she has ever seen the film...

[uwe]

I wasn't aware of this,  Frank Collin, the leader of those Illinois Nazis, had/has an, errrm, "interesting" background, you couldn't make this up if you tried, a closet-son-of-a-jewish-father (which doesn't make him a jew under Hebrew beliefs, only a jewish mother would, but would have seen him murdered in a concentration camp under the Nazis in no time) and pedophile as well as Atlantis lore devotee :



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Collin

"Collin's downfall began with the revelation that his father, Max Simon Collin, was a Jew whose original surname had been "Cohen". Max Cohen/Collin claimed to have been a prisoner at Dachau concentration camp, where Frank Collin was said to have been conceived.

While president of the NSPA, Collin was arrested by Michigan police while having sex with a pair of 10-year-old boys. These revelations led to his dismissal from the neo-Nazi movement. A psychiatrist who interviewed Collin declared that he was "consumed by hatred for his father"; it was argued that Collin rejected his father by becoming a neo-Nazi and adopting and publicly espousing antisemitic beliefs.

Collin was convicted of child molestation and sent to Pontiac prison in 1979. He served three years of a seven-year sentence.

After being released, Collin re-emerged into the spotlight as the author, "Frank Joseph". In 1987 he had a book published, The Destruction of Atlantis: Compelling Evidence of the Sudden Fall of the Legendary Civilization. Cohen/Collin/Joseph is now a self-described neo-pagan and edits The Ancient American magazine, which promotes the theory of diffusion of peoples in and out of the Americas in prehistoric times."

http://www.ancientamerican.com/

http://store.innertraditions.com/Contributor.jmdx?action=displayDetail&id=187

Ze mind, it doth boggle.

[Pilgrim]

There's a common disconnect that many outspoken people miss...freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from the consequences of that speech. 

[patman]

My kids have seen the Blues Brothers hundreds of times.  It did stoke their (and my) love of R & B...

Had no idea the nazi scene was sort of true

[Highlander]

Truth is sooo much stranger than fiction at times...