What's a Good Wireless System?

rahock · April 25, 2010, 06:23:58 AM

I'm thinking of picking up a wireless hook up. I'll be using it with my 70 and 51 Precisions and also with my Olympia electric/ acoustic. I'm real curious as to how this will work with an acoustic. I have no experience at all with wireless systems so any help in making a selection would be much appreciated. I'm also curious as to what kind of prices to expect.
A guitar player I get together with has a Nady that he picked up a few years ago for just over $100 and it works really well. most of the bigger names like Shure are better than double that amount. Once again , I'm pretty clueless when it comes to wireless stuff.
Rick

bassvirtuoso · April 25, 2010, 10:18:27 AM

I just bought a Line 6 X2 digital wireless system. Unfortunately I haven't used it yet, but I have heard such great things that I bought one. The one bad thing I've heard about them is the connector cable included, but I know Butch at Bayou Audio Cables does make a much better replacement.

Psycho Bass Guy · April 25, 2010, 02:41:37 PM

One thing of major consideration with the acoustic is to find a transmitter that has a very high input impedance or it'll load down the piezo output and make it sound very nasal and kill your dynamics and low end. Even though most acoustic/electric instruments are "buffered" with an onboard preamp, a 9 volt battery can't supply enough current to the preamp to keep the instrument sounding natural if it is loaded down too much.

gearHed289 · April 25, 2010, 09:10:06 PM

I've been using an X2 for about a year and a half. I ordered the upgrade cable. Well worth it, even at 40 bucks. Canare cable and Neutrik connector. Sound wise, it's virtually indistinguishable from a cord. Very dependable, and GASP! Made in USA! The range is not great, but I don't use it to be the Bozo who runs around in the crowd cause he's got a wireless. I just like the total freedom onstage. For the money, it can't be beat. There are better systems out there if you want to get into the real high end Shure and Sennheiser stuff, but that gets super pricey.

Aussie Mark · April 26, 2010, 05:47:50 PM

Every forum I'm on talks good things about the X2.

stiles72 · April 26, 2010, 06:52:16 PM

I've been using the same cheap 2 antenae "Nady 3D" unit since 1993, and have never had any issues with it. Other than changing batteries, the only thing I've had to do is replace a couple of bad cords on the transmitter.

rahock · April 26, 2010, 06:58:23 PM

What kind of price tag is on the X2? I've seen some of the Line 6 G-30/60/90 series stuff around but I'm not familiar with the X2.
Stiles, is that the Nady that costs a little over $100?

Another thing that I've been noticing on a lot of musical equipment that uses batteries,like wireless stuff and battery powered amplifiers etc., is that they are very specific about using Alkaline batteries. I'm in the process of converting a bunch of battery operated stuff to the rechargable NiMh batteries.
I'd like to convert the musical stuff to rechargables too, but I'm a little concerned about what difference there may be between NiMh and Alkaline. Any clues ?
Thanks,
Rick

Psycho Bass Guy · April 27, 2010, 12:39:46 AM

The X2 is a digital system that converts your signal into a digital transmission, thus avoiding the analog dynamic (companding) and bandwidth (no low end) limits of older sytems. The technology for MI use was invented by a company called X-Wire, who were subsequently bought out by Sennheiser. Sennheiser marketed their own version of the X-Wire and called it the D-100 and D-1000. I've had several of the D-1000's in various applications, and they've always been stellar, but Sennheiser priced them too high and they never sold well. ( I bought all mine used). Sennheiser sold off the X-Wire rights and now you have "X2" or X-Wire version 2.0 which, IIRC, is owned by Line 6.

The reason wireless units specify alkaline instead of rechargable batteries is twofold: alkaline batteries are higher in voltage for a given size. A "9 volt" alkaline battery is actually 9 volts, but in a rechargable form, it is only 7.2 or 8.4 volts. The other is that with NiCad batteries, in addition to having lower voltage, they also have lower current output, rated in mAh (milliampere-hours ) and thus, an extremely short duty cycle. Additionally, they will also develop a 'memory' over time and recharge less and less with each use.

New NiMH batteries are a different story provided that you know which ones to buy. They still have a lower voltage rating but can have much higher current capacity than an alkaline equivalent, so Ohm's Law dictates that if a certain amount of power is required to operate a wireless unit and the voltage is lower, the current output will have be higher in order to provide the same amount of power. Alkaline "AA" size batteries have a 1250 mAh rating under load, but I have seen "AA" NiMH batteries with ratings as high as 2900 mAh. I found a link to a wiki page that comparison lists the different types of consumer batteries,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

but the caveat I will add is that while alkaline ratings may seem inordinately high, that is because those ratings are made without a load, which can reduce current output by as much as 2/3's, which is not as big an issue with NiMH, and I will add that I have used rechargable NiMH batteries and had them perform as well as alkalines in several wireless units.

clankenstein · April 27, 2010, 04:02:00 AM

i use i power 520ma h 9v nimh batteries in my lectrosonics radio mics all the time, i get the same or more performance as an alkaline 9v.

rahock · April 27, 2010, 06:01:15 AM

Thanks for the info

. The battery thing has had me miffed for a while, I was aware that the NiCADs were not the greatest choice due to their charging limitations but the NiMH vs. Alkaline thing has had me scratching my head for a while

. It looks like I'm good to go with the highest mah rated NiMH batteries.
The wireless systems are all over the board as far as prices go and I don't think I need one of the big buck Shure or Sennheiser hook ups. The X2 and the Nady seem to be the direction I'm leaning but I still haven't seen a price anywhere for the X2.
Rick

bassvirtuoso · April 27, 2010, 09:57:09 AM

Amazon, IIRC, has the X2's for around 199.99. I bought mine off Talkbass cheaper than that. I'd scour TB first and see if there are any for sale, otherwise Amazon should hook you up.

gearHed289 · April 27, 2010, 10:04:40 AM

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XDS95

I think they're phasing this unit out.

Chris P. · April 27, 2010, 10:59:56 AM

I don't know if it's available abroad, but the only good system I tried was stageClix from Holland. By far the easiest, smallest and best. It works with a wifi-kinda signal, no big battery packs. Very small package.

http://www.stageclix.com/

rahock · April 27, 2010, 11:25:27 AM

Quote from: Chris P. on April 27, 2010, 10:59:56 AM
I don't know if it's available abroad, but the only good system I tried was stageClix from Holland. By far the easiest, smallest and best. It works with a wifi-kinda signal, no big battery packs. Very small package.

http://www.stageclix.com/

Not avialable in the US yet but they're working on it.
Rick

Pilgrim · April 28, 2010, 10:56:04 AM

If you buy a used system, make sure it's not in the 700 MHZ band. The FCC has mandated that all wireless mikes must abandon that frequency by June 12.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/wirelessmicrophones/ states: "...anyone who uses a wireless microphone (or similar device) that operates in the 700 MHz Band will have to stop operating their wireless microphone (or similar device) no later than June 12, 2010."

More info:

With the completion of the digital television (DTV) transition on June 12, 2009, television stations no longer use the frequencies between 698 and 806 MHz (the 700 MHz Band) for broadcast. These frequencies are now being used by public safety entities (such as police, fire and emergency services) and by commercial providers of wireless services (such as wireless broadband services).

The wireless microphones that had been operating in the old TV broadcast channels can cause harmful interference to these public safety and wireless consumer services. Therefore, all users of wireless microphones (or certain low power auxiliary stations) that operate on any of the frequencies in the 700 MHz band – including both licensed users (under Part 74) and unlicensed users – now have to stop operating in this band.

**************

New gear isn't going to be a problem, but it's worth checking the frequency of any existing or used wireless gear just to make sure you're not crossways with this.