what is it with that E string on EB3 and SG basses?

[godofthunder]

Good as those Slade clips are, Scott, and adorable as Jim Lea is as a bassist, even his low range E string playing is largely inaudible. He plays a lot of his signature runs and chording in the middle register and mostly on A, D and G, comparatively rarely hitting a npte below the low A much less play the E string empty.

Probably the reason why his signature boutique SG bass was a long scale.

Ah but it is not long scale !

[Dave W]

I presume that this is not apparent when the Mudbucker's fitted to a long-scale, as I never noticed any problem whilst using my Thunderbird with one... albeit not by the neck...

No problems on an EB-0L although it has the typical narrow magnetic field of the mudbucker polepieces. It doesn't allow for much string misalignment and it's not the bass to use if you like full step bends. 

[Highlander]

That'll be interesting to experiment with when I start the wiring experiments...

[Barklessdog]

I have been told that Alembic short scales do not have this issue, but @ $10,000 + they should not. Maybe Harry can verify?

I find that true of my 69 EB-0, the E string is weaker, more blurry. The higher string however are the reverse, much better sounding than on my long scales- thus the Dingwal was created.

[uwe]

That JD or whatever it is called is not long scale? 

[godofthunder]

Note the bridge location on the body. Jim Lea with his and my bass.

[uwe]

I stand corrected!

[OldManC]

So now I'm curious. Is it 30" scale? 32?

[Dave W]

I have been told that Alembic short scales do not have this issue, but @ $10,000 + they should not. Maybe Harry can verify?

I find that true of my 69 EB-0, the E string is weaker, more blurry. The higher string however are the reverse, much better sounding than on my long scales- thus the Dingwal was created.

Alembic does claim that its short scales are built to sound better than most. Still, a short scale will not sound like a long scale, and IMHO that's a good thing.

[Pilgrim]

Not all shorties have the volume drop fenomenon (sic) on the E-string.

I agree.  That's adjustable. 

[uwe]

I'm sure Alembic can build the most stunning and balanced short scale in the world. But they can't change the fact that a wire with a shorter length and less tension has different qualities in movement than one with more length and more tension. Try a 35" or 36" open E and you'll never hear your 34" open E the same way again. An Alembic short scale is still a bass with a shorter E string and one under less tension. Building it from green cryptonite won't change that.

You can enhance tension by using heavy gauge strings - like Rob does with his manly 110s -, but even there the laws of physics apply: Once you move in 115 or 120 territory, tension might approximate a long scale (you might possibly even need 125 or 130 to do that), but the ensuing stiffness of the part of the string directly before the bridge will create weird harmonics and intonation on a short scale as then a greater part of the whole string will be stiffened.

At the end of the day a short scale E is always at least a handful of kilos less tense than a long scale one and lacks the "rebound" a long scale string has when played in open mode. To me, that takes the kick out of it which is why I hardly play empty Es on my short scales, much less in a throbbing eights fashion. That is long scale territory.

But what the short scale taketh from the E, it giveth to the D and G. There is no free lunch.

Uwe

[Pilgrim]

But what the short scale taketh from the E, it giveth to the D and G. There is no free lunch.

Uwe

The popular acronym in the US is "TANSTAAFL":  There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

I first encountered it in Robert Henlein's science fiction classic The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress.

[Highlander]

Good Grief - even a wiki page...!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

What was that about physics...?

[Dave W]

What Uwe said about the weird harmonics if a string is too thick. No matter what scale length or instrument, there's always a point where a string is too thick for its scale length to be in tune with itself. It won't divide into harmonics properly.

[uwe]

Which also explains why so many short scale string sets are - contrary to expectation - comparatively light gauge, they try to avoid that issue with it.