what is it with that E string on EB3 and SG basses?

barend · April 24, 2010, 04:55:03 AM

This week I have tried a 60's EB3 at a music shop and also an SG faded and SG standard (with blocks).
All sounded great except for the E string. It lacks bottom, volume and power and it just doesn't sound as full as the other strings.
The SG standard had it, the SG faded also had it but less.

The pickup heights were ok, poles height were ok, tried both pickups, compared it to other basses and tried it on different amps.

I have owned an '68 EB3 and also an SG surpreme. Both basses also had that same problem. That was the main reason for selling them.

I know some of you probably are going to say it sounds good on my EB/SG bass but I have tried about 7 SG's/EB3's and all had that problem (some more, some less). It can't be a coincidence.

godofthunder · April 24, 2010, 06:02:30 AM

Strings make a big difference. I use Long scale standard gauge .45-104 Roto Sound Swing Bass on my short scale EB3s. Works for me, hope that helps.

barend · April 24, 2010, 06:15:30 AM

don't think strings are the issue here

eb2 · April 24, 2010, 07:41:13 AM

They do react differently to different strings. I always preferred tapes and flats on mine. But in short, I never had that problem.

In short, short scale. Ha.

godofthunder · April 24, 2010, 08:07:13 AM

Yeah me either really never a problem.

barend · April 24, 2010, 08:29:16 AM

Don't want to be stuborn but I think it has to do with electronics, pickups or body construction of the EB3 model.
Although different strings can make a bit difference it cannot make that much difference volumewise for one string only . And a volume drop is a volume drop. And it is only on the E string.
And it is not that it was on only on one bass. I have tried seven basses over a few years, all with different strings I suppose (don't know what strings were on the basses I tried in the shop).

Also I have strung my EB3 and SG with D'addarios and other strings as well.

Basvarken · April 24, 2010, 09:44:43 AM

Barend, check this thread. And check out the solution a couple of guys (from the Dutch Basgitaarforum) came up with:

http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=3047.msg45304#msg45304

The magnetic field of a mudbucker is a little too narrow.
By placing a metal object such as a nail or Allen wrench you sort of guide the flux. It supposedly works like a charm.

Pilgrim · April 24, 2010, 12:12:29 PM

If nothing else, that's a really easy thing to try - and the price is right.

Dave W · April 24, 2010, 03:54:18 PM

That will probably help the mudbucker, but if it's happening on the SG Basses too, which don't have a mudbucker, then the problem is elsewhere.

I don't know what else you're playing, but an E string on a short scale just doesn't have the punch and presence of the other three strings, or of a long scale E. If you usually play long scale basses, it may be that you're not used to the difference.

IMHO roundwounds make the difference much less noticeable.

uwe · April 24, 2010, 05:22:48 PM

Dave is right. I own dozens of short scales, the E string is an issue on all of them if you are looking for a piano string sound with a taut feel, authority, punch and non-deceptive harmonics. A short scale E string, no matter how loud you get it, can't provide that, medium scale basses can't either and I even hear a difference in the E string of a Ric with its not quite regular long scale.

There is a reason why the world went long scale. And there is also a reason why a short scale bass invites you to play things that are not as E string based as on a long scale.

OTOH, I like tje character of the A, D and G strings better on a short scale. More expressive and musical.

birdie · April 24, 2010, 06:29:59 PM

I must be one of the lucky few. My mid 60s beat to death (albeit entirely original) eb3 sounds great to my ears throughout the whole range. It has ancient short scale round-wound la bellas. I can offer no explanation!

Basvarken · April 25, 2010, 02:28:59 AM

If there really is a structural difference in "punch" and "presence" with shortscale basses in general that must only apply for the open E string and maybe the fretted F on the E-string.
From the fretted F# on the E-string the length is exactly the same as a short scale. It would only be the string pitch that makes it different.

Try putting a capo on the second position of a long scale bass and tune it to EADG. You'll notice the strings are kinda loose now.
This is how a short scale sounds and feels.

And this is one of the main reasons why I prefer extra heavy gauge strings(50-115)on my shorties. It helps to get the tone back. And to get a proper string tension.
I really have no issues with the E-string on my shorties.

barend · April 25, 2010, 02:37:33 AM

Quote from: uwe on April 24, 2010, 05:22:48 PM
Dave is right. I own dozens of short scales, the E string is an issue on all of them if you are looking for a piano string sound with a taut feel, authority, punch and non-deceptive harmonics. A short scale E string, no matter how loud you get it, can't provide that, medium scale basses can't either and I even hear a difference in the E string of a Ric with its not quite regular long scale.

There is a reason why the world went long scale. And there is also a reason why a short scale bass invites you to play things that are not as E string based as on a long scale.

I have tried an Les Paul Recording and that one didn't have that problem, the E string sounded good in balance with the other strings.
The E string on the EB3/SG basses sounded not only less full but also there is a volume drop on both pickups (but less on the bridge pickup).
Is the volume drop normal on all shorts scales? I guess a shortscale is not my thing then.

When I still had the EB3 and SG I noticed that I mostly played everything on the ADG strings and avoided the E string. In a band the E string didn't come through the mix and that annoyed me.

uwe · April 25, 2010, 03:23:22 AM

You can adjust volume, but not feel and general sound character. A short scale E is a bit like a B string is to the other strings on a long scale, always the odd man out and just not as organic a complementary fit.

Basvarken · April 25, 2010, 03:30:00 AM

Quote from: barend on April 25, 2010, 02:37:33 AM
I have tried an Les Paul Recording and that one didn't have that problem, the E string sounded good in balance with the other strings.
The E string on the EB3/SG basses sounded not only less full but also there is a volume drop on both pickups (but less on the bridge pickup).
Is the volume drop normal on all shorts scales? I guess a shortscale is not my thing then.

You already gave the answer yourself.
Not all shorties have the volume drop fenomenon on the E-string.