Good Morning America, how are you ...

[Lightyear]

We as a nation have been sold into servitude.

Da comarde!

Which line is this for a again?  Toilet paper or bread?

[Lightyear]

If anyone thinks that the feds can run health care I invite anyone to visit a VA hospital.  Find an aging vet that depends solely on the VA and ask them what they think of the VA system.

America made a sacred vow to the members of our armed forces many years ago and look how their healthcare has been handled.

What about Medicare/Medicaid?  Which is so far beyond screwed up that it defies description.

And lastly, this administration claimed that they would be above reproach.  Everything would be covered realtime on Cspan, every piece of legislation would posted online for five days prior to it be signed into law by the president.  What happened to the enlightend campaign promises?   Had this been done in an equitable fashion, and as promised, we wouldn't be where we are now.  There would be differences without a doubt but what we have now is truly one side's vision and nothing else.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

And lastly, this administration claimed that they would be above reproach.  Everything would be covered realtime on Cspan, every piece of legislation would posted online for five days prior to it be signed into law by the president.  What happened to the enlightend campaign promises?  

I must have missed that. Where'd you get that tidbit?

[Lightyear]

The Cspan remark?  The president made this a point during his campaign and while he obviously wasn't my choice I thought this was a good idea - it bores the freakin' life out of me to watch Cspan but I think this had some merit.  If you remember back a fews weeks ago Cspan was blocked from covering hearings and tried in vain to gain access - even offereing to install unmanned remote camera and sound equipment - they were shot down.  I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during the negotiations and arm twisting that went into getting the votes to pass this thing.

The five day thing always sounded a like a pig in a poke - how many Americans would actually read 2000 pages of legislation?  Hell, how many congressmen and senators would read a piece of legislation prior to voting for it?  That would be asking too much.....

[Psycho Bass Guy]

The Cspan remark?  The president made this a point during his campaign

When? How exactly was this remark phrased?

[Lightyear]

This remark was made during stump speeches.  I've heard this replayed on several outlets - over and over again.  Granted I was not listening to NPR when I heard this but I the jest of the speech was  ".................things will be different when I'm the president........"  This was not a 5 second sound bite but one that certainly incudes enough material that the comment is understood in the context it was made.

I'm sure it's easily found - to my understanding this promise was made on several occasions.

EDIT

Here something I found on my first search, first hit.  I think all of us can agree that Al Franken is a little left of center.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/03/franken-hits-obama-over-cspan-promise.php

[lowend1]

This is a follow-up story...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703481004574646560762972536.html

[Lightyear]

Thanks, your article is much better than mine.

[Chaser001]

I've found this site with eight clips of Obama promising to televise the heath care debate on C-Span.  This is obviously an extreme right wing site, but the video clips of Obama are real.  I am an independent, almost to the point of being apolitical.  I am not trying to promote liberalism or conservatism. 


http://www.breitbart.tv/the-c-span-lie-did-obama-really-promise-televised-healthcare-negotiations/

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I was asking because I had never heard the part about CSpan, but had heard the rest about the posting online and whatnot. There are a number of things that Obama has done which displease, but do not surprise me. Politics is a dirty business and those who participate in it, even with the best of intentions, have to play by its rules, whether it be Congress or the PTA.  Obama is an idealist in many ways and this country's problems need more practical than ideological addressing.

sorta off topic...

One thing that really chaps my ass is the people who say they are so disgusted with government that they give up. How are things supposed to change if all we as a nation do is tacitly accept the status quo repackaged every now and then? My congressmen and representatives vote almost the polar opposite of me most of the time, but that doesn't mean that they don't hear from me and not just at the polls. I am extremely proud of my congressman, Jimmy Duncan, for his stand on the Iraq war, however symbolic it may have been, and I let him know it.

[Chaser001]

I was asking because I had never heard the part about CSpan, but had heard the rest about the posting online and whatnot. There are a number of things that Obama has done which displease, but do not surprise me. Politics is a dirty business and those who participate in it, even with the best of intentions, have to play by its rules, whether it be Congress or the PTA.  Obama is an idealist in many ways and this country's problems need more practical than ideological addressing.

sorta off topic...

One thing that really chaps my ass is the people who say they are so disgusted with government that they give up. How are things supposed to change if all we as a nation do is tacitly accept the status quo repackaged every now and then? My congressmen and representatives vote almost the polar opposite of me most of the time, but that doesn't mean that they don't hear from me and not just at the polls. I am extremely proud of my congressman, Jimmy Duncan, for his stand on the Iraq war, however symbolic it may have been, and I let him know it.

The ideological gridlock is paralyzing the country.  Either there can be an attempt at bipartisanship or there can be the creation of a true third party movement.  I think bipartisanship is close to impossible.  But I would like to see some kind of third party movement driven by centrist political ideology.  I am weary of both Republican and Democratic partisanship.  The health care debate is a great example of that.  Libertarianism is also not much of an alternative, either, as far as I'm concerned.  Unfortunately, neither is the tea party movement.  American politics has become a vacuum.  If the tea party movement becomes more independent and moves farther away from the Republicans, then the chances are great that Obama will be re-elected because his opposition will be too divided.  If the tea party movement more or less loosely works with Republicans, it is likely Obama will be defeated in his re-election bid.  It is really way too early to start making definite predictions, though.  A lot may depend on what's next on the Democrats' agenda.  If they make climate change the next topic of debate, this is probably going to divide the country even more.  I'm really quite concerned about the toxic effect that political polarization is having right now.  I definitely agree with the idea that the country needs some practical solutions immediately, but I'm not holding my breath. 

[OldManC]

Uwe, Carl Georgeston's career at home could flatline and it wouldn't matter one bit. Even one term in congress would be enough to make millions per year as a lobbyist once he leaves Congress. He would also have a good chance at getting an appointment in the administration of the next President from his party (not to mention board jobs in the private and semi-private sector that are open to politicians with access and pull; you should look it up and see how well Bill Clinton's friends did at Fannie Mae in the 90's).

Depending on how many terms he can survive in Washington, Carl will most likely have a better retirement package than most any old working joe in the private sector, and his health benefits will be better than anyone would be getting from Obamacare (government workers being exempted from it by design). Believe me, if Carl gets to Congress he won't ever have to scape to make a living!

[Pilgrim]

This thread is working remarkably well.  My congratulations to all who post.

The comment about VA hospitals hits home to me - so I'll share a story.  In the early 90's my mom was in delicate shape but still able to stay at home with live-in care.  A veteran who had also worked for the postal service was her caregiver - he lived on the basement floor.  He had an old head wound, and it gave him real trouble to the point where he couldn't hold an 8-5 job.  He often had to visit the VA hospital in Spokane, WA 80 miles north; he usually had to make an appointment about a month ahead, and they often didn'couldn't even see him on the same day of his appointment, so he sometimes ended up sleeping in his truck overnight.  We had to arrange care for mom when he was stuck overnight in Spokane.

That hospital was overloaded and couldn't care for the veterans who lived in that area - and it wasn't even a heavily populated part of the country.  This was all BEFORE 9/11!

I have a beef with the Bush administration because when they sent the troops overseas, they did little or nothing to staff up the VA medical facilities which immediately experienced a huge influx of injured soldiers.  It took a number of scandals before the Bush administration put more resources into their VA hospitals.  We spent literally billions to send soldiers overseas to war, but almost nothing to build up the hospitals to prepare for a fully predictable influx of casualties.

This is just an example of how government often fails to think through the reasonably predictable consequences of its actions...and it takes a scandal to get action.  It makes one wonder what else isn't being thought about, and where the consequences will fall.

Meanwhile, I heard today that some legislators are spending their time proposing laws that will make it illegal under the new health care law for federal funds to be used to provide viagra to convicted sex offenders. These idiots are wasting their time grandstanding on obscure topics instead of trying to deal with real issues and real needs of their country!

[Dave W]

If anyone thinks that the feds can run health care I invite anyone to visit a VA hospital.  Find an aging vet that depends solely on the VA and ask them what they think of the VA system.

America made a sacred vow to the members of our armed forces many years ago and look how their healthcare has been handled.

What about Medicare/Medicaid?  Which is so far beyond screwed up that it defies description.

....

I won't address the cspan issue since that's already been covered, and you're right.

But again, this is not going to be anything like the VA and Medicare. The feds are not running anything, they will be dictating to private, for-profit insurers. IMO this will help some people but only make things worse than they are now for most people. But it won't be a government entity.

And no matter what posturing you hear about how Congress has stuck it to the insurance companies, the companies are very happy about the outcome. As well they ought to be, since they poured hundreds of millions of dollars into lobbying.

No matter what the issue or which party is in power, we have the finest congress that corporate money can buy.  

[OldManC]

No matter what the issue or which party is in power, we have the finest congress that corporate money can buy.  

Truer words were never spoken. There seems to be a few good ones here and there (again, I say seems), but there's a reason Congress' approval rating is in the mid teens these days...




Edit: and I have to say I too am happy that this discussion has been able to proceed as well as it has. Thanks to all!