Traynor YBA 200-2

[godofthunder]

First............................Sorry to PBG. Dave I am not blowing tubes or changing them out on every gig, on occassion I have had to use a spare. Once when my guitar player dropped his 100w Marshall one of the 6550s had some loose stuff rattling around in it, replaced with my spare. The few times I have replaced a pre amp tube at a gig is not because of some failure but that the amp had a drop in power or that is was breaking up a little, my technique ? trial and error. Tubes I carry ? KT88s, 6550s and 12xa7s. Again sorry for letting this get out of hand.

[Dave W]

I hope we're all cool now, it's a good discussion to have.

[Pilgrim]

Mark and Scott, I don't have the technical knowledge that Psycho Bass Guy does, but I do know that you don't need to be carrying spare tubes to gigs. If you have an amp that's actually blowing tubes so often that you have to carry spares, then you have an amp problem, not a tube problem, and you need to get that taken care of. Tubes last for years.

I'm coming from the same place, Dave.  I don't claim to have the tech knowledge to discuss this at the circuit level, I'm more an "applied-practical" guy.  That's why I asked my two questions earlier...how to tell if a tube is problematic, and how to identify which tube.  If there aren't good answers, then having spare tubes serves no function.  (EDIT: the comments above in reply #30 indicate that there are some cases in which a tube might be ID'd as a problem...although I doubt that I could do as well.) And I agree, most tubes last for years or decades.

Regardless of the cause of an amp failure, if it's anything other than a blown fuse (and one that's externally user-accessible, which many are not), my contention is that you're unlikely to fix it during a gig. Seems to me that the best fix is either a spare head or a stout PA system and a DI.

Meanwhile, I'm curious to know how the head is working out at gigs....Mark said he might be using it soon.

[Highlander]

Just getting the kettle on... anyone for tea...? 

[TBird1958]

 "Meanwhile, I'm curious to know how the head is working out at gigs....Mark said he might be using it soon."
 
One more rehearsal with the whole band tonight, I'll make a few small tone tweaks and a/b the volume level between a couple of my '76s - Next Friday and Sat we're on the road to 7 Cedars Casino, a totally pro venue, big beautiful stage, lights, 2 soundguys, private dressing rooms everything comped and great $$$ The Traynor is making the trip, I'm    

[Highlander]

Good luck for the gig... 

[the mojo hobo]

On the question of spare tubes, the manual for my Sunn 300t says:

"A simple way to check if the tubes are worn is to replace the set in your amp with your spare set. (You do carry spare tubes and fuses, don't you?)"

Of course I carry neither. The one time the Sunn crapped out on me spare fuses wouldn't have helped, the wiring to the heaters burned open. Luckily this happened on a gig just a few blocks from home. Now I usually carry a spare head, a Sunn 1200S hybrid.

I had a Traynor YBA200 a few years ago. The first series. I bought it because that Sunn is so dang heavy. The Traynor was much lighter, but It didn't do the rich deep clean lows that the Sunn  does so I ditched it.

I have since bought an Eden E300t which is as light as the Traynor, but more powerful and better sounding. I am using it most of the time now, but I've come to the conclusion there is a reason they used those big heavy transformers in the Sunn, they sound great.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Sorry about the long absense. I've had lots of unexpected complications in starting my new job, most of them good, but complications none the less. Since this thread has had a long time to settle down, it's a good time to make good on some PM good-faith promises I made to Scott which can help to clarify the issue of tube replacement. Before I get started, just so it's plain, Scott and I are good with each other, and this is in no way a further argument, but a good opportunity to help clear up some widespread misconceptions about tubes.

on occassion I have had to use a spare. Once when my guitar player dropped his 100w Marshall one of the 6550s had some loose stuff rattling around in it, replaced with my spare.

Big audio power tubes, especially 6550's and KT88's, have lots of internal mass relative to their support structure, and a large physical shock can move the internal parts around without breaking the glass envelope, rendering an otherwise perfect tube shorted. That's exactly what happened to the KT88 that went in my Trace Elliot VR400 when it fell. What happens is that the large mass of the plate and beam-former are really too heavy for the thin metal rods that support them and due to their higher operating temperatures and the larger amount of space than most other audio power tubes like 6L6's or EL34's means that it is quite possible to knock them around enough to bend the internals to the point that places that shouldn't touch, do touch. It's no so much an issue with old manufactered 6550's as they used stronger support beams, but modern tubes can be knocked into shorts; the flipside is that they can also be knocked again to move apart, but it's not a good idea to use a tube that you know has mobile internals. That's not to say that it is common, but it is possible. NOS US tubes, especially GE 6550A's and 8417's, have their own set of problems.  If you heard rattling, it was probably toast. However, had the amp been running at the time, it would have required some pretty serious repairs. My Trace Elliot has internal relays which kick in case of failure that a Marshall does not, and even with the relays, the fuse-holder melted before the fuse blew.

The few times I have replaced a pre amp tube at a gig is not because of some failure but that the amp had a drop in power or that is was breaking up a little, my technique ? trial and error.

That's more a case of the aforementioned "expectation" effect, because preamp tubes have so little relative emission to their output that their aging process is so slow as to be imperceptible, even with Chinese junk. It is possible for most musicians to identify and change a microphonic preamp tube, but not on a gig. And in that case, the tube was already bad from the factory; it did not "go" bad.

[lowend1]

The issue of microphonics is the problem that I've run into most frequently - and almost exclusively with preamp tubes. For example, I have a Peavey Alpha tube bass preamp that I cart around to studios, support gigs and anywhere else I'm not using my rig. It's saved me from many a GK (stands for "Goes Klank" - sorry, Mark). Anyhow, I've noticed of late that there is a ring that becomes audible after the amp has warmed up. If you tap the volume knobs you can accentuate it, likewise if you pop the hood and tap on the tubes with the eraser end of a pencil. The original tubes were Peavey Silver Specials (80s Chinese), but I have swapped them with some of the numerous "pull" 12AX7s that I've acquired over the years, and I haven't killed the noise yet. I find it hard to believe that ALL my tubes are microphonic - could anything else be causing the ring?

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Lots of things in a tube amp can become microphonic over time. Old Fenders are famous for their bus wiring being microphonic. Anything that has the potential for movement and generates a magnetic field can be the culprit, from the transformers and bus wiring to capacitors and pots. The best solution is physically isolate the amp from cab vibration. An Aurelex Gramma fits an SVT head perfectly, but folded bath towels or foam padding works just as well.

[Dr. Aquafresh]

I look forward to hearing about this amp in a live situation, I'm not saying that my SVT is getting too heavy but some days it's heavier than others.

[Freuds_Cat]

interesting thread.   Nice looking amp Mark.

Tubes.
I carry a few tubes just  because i carry a lot of back up gear and its easy to do. So I figure why not?

In my 30 years experience its saved me once. Which tends to back up (IMO) what PBG and Dave are saying.

Tubes seem to give a lot of notice before they actually die that they are not happy. Weeks, even months from what I've seen (heard).

Ironically just a few weeks ago we were recording and the AC30 that the geetadis was using started making some crackles, pops and fizz's when being played. I had a cheap new set of JJ's that I gave him which he replaced for the newish EH's that were in the amp.....problem solved, although the amp didnt sparkle quite as much. Nothing wrong wioth the amp just one of the tubes decided it wasn't happy. Live you copuld still have played on without most people being aware.  Interesting annecdote I guess but the bottom line for me is that tubes are just as stable as SS.

[TBird1958]

 Okay all,

This post did need some sort of post show review as I did take the amp out on the road for a long weekend trip. The venue is very pro with a nice FOH system so what ever amp I use, it really won't be working too hard - just enough for me to feel the stage move some as I use IEM's. The Traynor worked just great! It moves easily with handles on either end ( plus feet on one) and if I (with my girlie arms) can move it anybody can!  I really like how all my 'Birds sound thru this head, the tone in general has a bit more warmth and growl to it and the brittleness that the GK can have at lower volume is not there at all. I keep the bass at about 12, mids at 1 and the treble kicked up almost full to accentuate the pick attack. My Gain at about 11 and the Master at 1. With such good P.A. support I had two pretty good nights of playing, I switched between my Black '77 and the Lull using my Line 6 in No Amp mode to act as a volume control as the Lull has a pretty hot pick up and I didn't want to throw the soundman for a loop just 'cause I switched basses.
Our next show is local and under similar circumstances but after that we have several shows in May at smaller venues with no P.A. support so my rig will supply all the bass - So here's the question for you all, is 200 watts thru 8x10's enough? Our drummer is loud (aside from being oafish) so I need to keep up with her but we're not over the top loud......


And a little pic from the show with our guitarist  

[Freuds_Cat]

Okay all,

This post did need some sort of post show review as I did take the amp out on the road for a long weekend trip. The venue is very pro with a nice FOH system so what ever amp I use, it really won't be working to hard - just enough for me to feel the stage move some as I use IEM's. The Traynor worked just great! It moves easily with handles on either end ( plus feet one one) and if I (with my girlie arms) can move it anybody can!  I really like how all my 'Birds sound thru this head, the tone in general has a bit more warmth and growl to it and the brittleness that the GK can have at lower volume is not there at all. I keep the bass at about 12, mids at 1 and the treble kicked up almost full to accentuate the pick attack. My Gain at about 11 and the Master at 1. With such good P.A. support I had two pretty good nights of playing, I switched between my Black '77 and the Lull using my Line 6 in No Amp mode to act as a volume control as the Lull has a pretty hot pick up and I didn't want to throw the soundman for a loop just 'cause I switched basses.
Our next show is local and under similar circumstances but after that we have several shows in May at smaller venues with no P.A. support so my rig will supply all the bass - So here's the question for you all, is 200 watts thru 8x10's enough? Our drummer is loud (aside from being oafish) so I need to keep up with her but we're not over the top loud......


And a little pic from the show with our guitarist  

No way in the world 200w would be enough for my 8 Ohm EV's but you use GK cabs dont you Mark? That said, 200w of Tube power tends to represent as a lot more than it would if it were SS. It will depend on the speakers IMHO as to weather or not it has enough power. Please make sure you keep updating this thread with your journey into Tubedom.

[Highlander]

Our next show is local and under similar circumstances but after that we have several shows in May at smaller venues with no P.A. support so my rig will supply all the bass - So here's the question for you all, is 200 watts thru 8x10's enough?

You're gonna need to play that one by ear, if you'll pardon the rather lame pun, Ma'am

Suggestion... rehearsal - long lead (or someone with a "good-ear" that you trust) - both amps - see what you get... bodies will always make a difference though...

Whilst you have no experience of the amp in that type of venue, you could always take both, the once, just in case...