Traynor YBA 200-2

[luve2fli]

 

[Pilgrim]

I carry spares and have used them.

Tell me - how do you determine which tube is faulty?  No glow?  This has always been a stopper for me...perhaps I've missed something!

[Psycho Bass Guy]

PBG When you use the word "eating" to me that means going through them a lot.

That's exactly how I meant it, but from what I gather, the "bad" preamp tubes you are pulling are not non-functional; they just don't sound right to you, so you swap them. There's a name for that: the placebo effect- a change is expected, so it is observed. Any time you want to get rid of your "bad" tubes, I'll be happy to take them off your hands and post some test data on just how "bad" they really are.

I don't get what you are all whipped up about.

...says the person continually arguing that he's not arguing.

Really? You don't get that my professional experience, technical data, and training, not my "opinion," is diametrically opposed to what you're saying, and I keep trying to reconcile the two? This is not a matter of opinion; this is a matter of fact; are spare tubes a good idea? The answer is an unqualified "no."

I carry spares and have used them.

...which is a different than saying that it is a good idea for someone else to carry them out of necessity, which is bullshit.

our opinion is that it is not nessesary

No, my experience is that it is not neccessary. Anyone can have an opinion; I speak from a position of technical expertise.

Fine I really don't care, we disagree no big deal

Your past few posts say otherwise...

That does not mean I am "full of shit".

I attributed that statement BEFORE you entered this thread and seemed to take such strong offense to my using it. The argument that spare tubes are necessary is baseless in fact, so the people who purport, are in fact, supporting a fallacy, and are "full of shit" when attempting to speak to it from an informed technical perspective.  Just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm going to take it back. I never singled you out prior to your argument, nor was I even aware you felt that way, so please don't try and play some "martyr card" that you're being personally abused. I have nothing against you personally at all other than a little frustration with your apparent stubbornness to refuse to differienate between fact and opinion.

Honestly I think your moderating skills could use a little work.

I have not "moderated" this thread in any fashion, nor have I used my position as moderator to enforce my views. Your posts have not been modified, censored or otherwise altered by me in any way, shape, form, or fashion. This is not an issue of moderation; this is an issue of disagreement. As to your opinion of my "moderating skills," it has been duly noted and given the appropriate weight of action.

[godofthunder]

 I told Mark it is a good idea to carry spares, I stand by that statement. You are the one who came out with both guns blazing by stating who ever told you that is "full of shit". I do take issue with that. I may not come from a technical background but I do come from a user background of over 39 years. 8 times out of 10 when I take a amp in for work it is the preamp tubes. "No, my experience is that it is not neccessary. Anyone can have an opinion; I speak from a position of technical expertise" Still just your opinion.

[Highlander]

DING-DING... end of round one...

(nice weather we're having for this time of year...)

[Pilgrim]

Ahem -

If I may interrupt, can someone tell me how they determine in the field:

1) That a tube has failed, and;

2) If so, which tube?

It seems to me that unless both of these can be achieved without testing equipment, the issue of carrying tubes into the field is moot.

[exiledarchangel]

Hey ppl stop fighting, we're not in TB anyway. 

[Hornisse]

What kind of jobs do you all have that you can sit here in the middle of the day and argue nonsense?  I want to apply!   

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I told Mark it is a good idea to carry spares,

I was not aware of that when i said what I did, nor did I single out anything you said until you very vehemently argued that my statements as to the facts were simply an optional opinion. If you're hell bent on carrying around spare tubes, by all means, do so, but don't try to equate your gut feelings as valid technical fact.

I stand by that statement.

Obviously; that doesn't make it any more factual; that just makes it your personal opinion.

You are the one who came out with both guns blazing by stating who ever told you that is "full of shit". I do take issue with that.

Get thicker skin.  I didn't mean to insult you personally and if you can't recognize a little hyperbole, I suggest you try to envision most of my more "vitriolic" posts with tounge firmly in cheek and quit looking for personal insults where none exist. We disagree, obviously, but please, cut the victim routine. This is the big boy forum where we sometimes talk like big boys and don't act like teenage girls making everything unnecessarily dramatic. I'm sorry you took offense to the way I phrased my statement, and if it really bothers you that bad, my PM box is wide open.

I may not come from a technical background but I do come from a user background of over 39 years. 8 times out of 10 when I take a amp in for work it is the preamp tubes.

Your "tech" is either being dishonest or isn't actually fixng things and isn't aware of it. There are several circuit faults that changing a preamp tube will temporarily mask, bad coupling caps being the most common. A new tube with a slightly different plate impedance or tonal response can stop or mask decoupling oscillation, which can have symptons of anything ranging from 'weird' tone to ghost notes and feedback.  Changing the tube can make that stuff stop, but it doesn't fix the problem, nor was the "old" tube at fault.

"No, my experience is that it is not neccessary. Anyone can have an opinion; I speak from a position of technical expertise" Still just your opinion.

Really? Then please supply me with the cathode currents, transconductance data and/or shorts/faults of your supposedly "bad" tubes. Let's see how my "opinion" matches up against the tubes' spec sheets.

Ahem -

If I may interrupt, can someone tell me how they determine in the field:

1) That a tube has failed, and;

2) If so, which tube?

It seems to me that unless both of these can be achieved without testing equipment, the issue of carrying tubes into the field is moot.

Yep. I asked the same question earlier: 'Why change them?'

Hey ppl stop fighting, we're not in TB anyway.  

Being the mod, and it's my call, let me explain why I feel this type of communication is important enough to take place here, even as contetious as it may seem: these issues are not matters of opinion. There is verifiable technical data that directly addresses this subject matter, and to 'let it go' for the sake of "not fighting" does a disservice to people who come to this forum expecting facts. Since you mentioned TB, I'm going to use it as a prime counter-example. Unlike that forum, here, the science of electronics is not subject to a popularity contest or advertiser pressure, nor does it take a backseat to political correctness. I feel very strongly that it be presented accurately. There's no need for vitriol, but vigorous healthy debate is a sign of good forum, not a bad one, that's why I've been so insistent on data or some quantifiable aspect that defines exactly how godofthunder's preamp tubes are not living as long as I state they should.

What kind of jobs do you all have that you can sit here in the middle of the day and argue nonsense?  I want to apply!  

...lunchbreak, my friend. I do enjoy this forum.

[Hornisse]

Where were we.........oh yeah, great looking bass head Mark!

[godofthunder]

"Your "tech" is either being dishonest or isn't actually fixng things" I have been going to John Nau for over 20 years, he not only does repairs, mods etc. but is a well regarded amplifier designer and builder.Your statement qouted IS opinion not fact. I trust him a hell of a lot more than I trust you.

[godofthunder]

Not only my "tech" but a close personal friend. http://web.mac.com/tom.hedrick/iWeb/Nau/Welcome.html

[TBird1958]

Poly vs. Nitro anyone?

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Not only my "tech" but a close personal friend. http://web.mac.com/tom.hedrick/iWeb/Nau/Welcome.html

...then as a service to all reading this thread, please have him explain why you seem to replace preamp tubes more frequently than what is normally necessary or provide the technical diagnosis he gives you as reasoning for replacement and how he has instructed you to do this in a gig situation, where your "spares" would be needed. Also, out of respect to this forum, unless you're posting some technical data supporting your reasoning, please refrain from further argument. You'll need to provide the ampifier model, the specific tube type, its location in the circuit and the voltage and/or current reading taken from it from which its 'failure' was determined. All other aurgment is spurious and superfluous and will be subject to removal.

If you simply stick with the facts of the matter, there will be no problem, but I am not interested in, nor will I tolerate further personal commentary from you about myself, my "opinions," or my posting style. I have tried to communicate with you openly, honestly, and as friendly as possible. If you feel otherwise, then you are welcome to PM me about it, but this thread is for factual exchange, not personality conflicts.

[Dave W]

Mark and Scott, I don't have the technical knowledge that Psycho Bass Guy does, but I do know that you don't need to be carrying spare tubes to gigs. If you have an amp that's actually blowing tubes so often that you have to carry spares, then you have an amp problem, not a tube problem, and you need to get that taken care of. Tubes last for years.