Toyota: maybe fixed, maybe not

Pilgrim · February 23, 2010, 02:58:40 PM

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2011159167_aptoyotarecall.html

The president of Toyota's U.S. operations acknowledged to skeptical lawmakers on Tuesday that the company's recalls of millions of its cars may "not totally" solve the problem of sudden and dangerous acceleration.

"We are vigilant and we continue to look for potential causes," Toyota's James Lentz told a congressional panel. However, he repeated his company's position that unexpected acceleration in some of the company's most popular cars and trucks was caused by one of two problems - misplaced floor mats and sticking accelerator pedals.

He insisted electronic systems connected to the gas pedal and fuel line did not contribute to the problem, drawing sharp criticism from lawmakers who said such a possibility should be further explored - and from a tearful woman driver who could not stop her runaway Lexus.

"Shame on you, Toyota," Rhonda Smith, of Sevierville, Tenn., said at a congressional hearing. Then she added a second "shame on you" directed at federal highway safety regulators.

Texas Republican Rep. Joe Barton cautioned his colleagues early in the hearing against conducting a "witch hunt" and said "We don't want to just assume automatically that Toyota has done something wrong and has tried to cover it up." But midway through Lentz's testimony, Barton said of Toyota's investigation of the problems: "In my opinion, it's a sham."

(I used to live in TX in the district Barton represents - he's such a business advocate that if he doesn't believe them, I doubt anyone will.)

(More story at the link)

I heard a story on NPR this AM...a gent was sitting at a light with his foot on the brake and the engine surged with his foot completely off the gas. He shifted into neutral and turned it off....but he had no idea how a problem with the gas pedal sensor could cause that. Neither do I. If the sensor itself is running amok, then the spacer Toyota is installing isn't going to help.

My money's on Toyota NOT having the fix for this...and it's going to hurt them. This is just what domestic automakers have been waiting for.

uwe · February 23, 2010, 03:06:24 PM

Pearl Harbor finally avenged!

Dave W · February 23, 2010, 03:36:23 PM

I just flat out don't believe the story of the woman with the runaway Lexus. She changed her version of events after it was pointed out that she could have turned off the car. Now she says she couldn't put it in neutral and couldn't turn it off. What a damned liar.

No doubt there have been real problems, even fatalities. But these orchestrated hearings smack of a Soviet show trial.

Here's the truth about NHTSA complaints -- note that Toyota has had fewer complaints than everyone except Mercedes Benz, Porsche and Smart Car.

OldManC · February 23, 2010, 03:49:51 PM

One problem with the government owning two of the big three domestic auto manufacturers in the U.S. is the question now of whether they're just protecting their investment by going after anyone else if they get a chance. I'm not saying they are, but it's a legitimate question now.

Psycho Bass Guy · February 23, 2010, 04:11:37 PM

Quote from: Dave W on February 23, 2010, 03:36:23 PM
I just flat out don't believe the story of the woman with the runaway Lexus. She changed her version of events after it was pointed out that she could have turned off the car. Now she says she couldn't put it in neutral and couldn't turn it off. What a damned liar.

..sad to say that she's from my neck of the woods and that behavior is quite the norm, especially for Sevier County: anything for a fast buck. My wife has that same model Lexus that predates the recalls, and you can easily shift it into neutral if need be. (I've knocked it there by accident with my elbow.) I don't think you can turn it off in drive.

Nocturnal · February 23, 2010, 04:34:37 PM

Quote from: OldManC on February 23, 2010, 03:49:51 PM
One problem with the government owning two of the big three domestic auto manufacturers in the U.S. is the question now of whether they're just protecting their investment by going after anyone else if they get a chance. I'm not saying they are, but it's a legitimate question now.

I've heard this same thing being debated a lot lately. But of course we can trust our elected leaders to always do the right thing..................................................

Psycho Bass Guy · February 23, 2010, 04:43:00 PM

...just now watched her testimony. It's bullshit. Watch her body language and watch how carefully rehearsed her statement was with specifically designed "impact points." The gear shift is still a physical mechanism, and even if an "electronic fault" overrode the automatic transmission's shift points, reverse at speed would tear out the drivetrain and neutral would have disengaged the engine and redlined it.

I worked for a few years in the Sevierville area and I think I've met her and the experience was not positive. It's also possible she has visited my TV station, though not for anything regarding this incident.

uwe · February 23, 2010, 05:05:00 PM

I'm sure that there are enough people trying to hop on the train now and I'm always sceptical of those "I couldn't stop the car"-stories. But the "state-owned car companies are behind this" is a bit too conspirationist for me! Do you really think that if GM and Chrysler were still privately owned, they would not gloat about the marketing and brand disaster caving in on Toyota? For decades, Toyota argued with its quality - and they did build good cars no doubt -, but if you ram that down everybody's throat you shouldn't be surprised about the sniggering if you're caught handling a technical defect abysmally bad. From what I've read, Toyota hesitated and ignored for too long and thereby helped create the problem they now face.

That woman might still be a lousy driver though!

OldManC · February 23, 2010, 05:33:35 PM

Uwe, it's not the gloating I'm worried about (and you're right, Toyota deserves whatever schadenfreude it has engendered due to its self inflicted PR nightmare). What I'm worried about is political posturing and grandstanding masquerading as consumer protection where lots will be said (when cameras and reporters are near) but little will be done.

Pilgrim · February 23, 2010, 05:50:20 PM

The potential for driver failure is indeed high since so many people are woefully ignorant about how to operate a car and unwilling to admit their incompetence.

Remember the Audi "unintended foot-on-throttle" events in the 80's? People's claims were ridiculous...the problem was that the gas and brake were set up ideally for the joy of heel-and-toe driving, but the idiots missed the brake.

My wife and I ran out and got a great deal on an Audi 5000 Turbo during that mess - drove the costs of used Audis way down. We drove Audis for 20 years after that.

JimB52 · February 23, 2010, 06:32:36 PM

The throttle on my (non Toyota) stuck wide open this Summer while driving to the beach with my 12 year old son. Scary. Even with brakes applied, I was going over 70. Shifted into neutral, shut off the ignition and pulled over - good thing I was on a wide road with light traffic. If the same thing had happened in the city or a residential area, I would have hit something or somebody.

Lightyear · February 23, 2010, 07:54:42 PM

Congress has nothing better to do?! What a pack of freakin' idiots! We're drowning in red ink and my great, great, grandkids already have their souls mortagaged to Beelzebub and they have to put on a dog and pony show? They should all fire themselves and try to find a real jobs

Not discounting for a minute the severity of the problems that Toyota is having - just the idiocy that is Washington D.C.

(Sorry for the rant Dave, please delete if need be)

OldManC · February 23, 2010, 09:01:57 PM

I was just telling my wife maybe we should keep an eye out on used Toyotas over the next few months. If they tank like the Audis did we could make out big time!

Dog and pony show... I don't know if I'd even have been that charitable.

Dave W · February 23, 2010, 09:33:17 PM

Quote from: uwe on February 23, 2010, 05:05:00 PM
I'm sure that there are enough people trying to hop on the train now and I'm always sceptical of those "I couldn't stop the car"-stories.

No surprise here: Toyota "sudden acceleration deaths" suddenly accelerate

It's too bad, because some of the stories are true. There is a real problem that Toyota has failed to address until now. But once the plaintiffs bar gets involved, the phony claims will swamp the legitimate ones. You can count on it.

eb2 · February 23, 2010, 11:20:07 PM

You have to expect a few fairy tales in a litigious society. But when you have a company like Toyota having several different groups within the organization being well aware of the fact that their products are literallly killing people over a period of several years, you have to wonder how the hell this is going to play out. A load of fake stories may be the least of it all.

I try not to buy into conspiracy theories, and haven't heard of anyone suggesting the new Federal overseers are behind the publicity, but the comments by Mr Lahood seemed to have been motivated by something beyond the realm of responsibility. And there is a lot of money involved, which makes for interesting things, including Toyota suggesting simillar concerns internally.

Bottom line is Toyota knew about it, and they were willing to let people get into fatal wrecks instead of dealing with anything beyond rug mats. Now they are suggesting that they are aware of a potential electronic freak event that could happen, but because they can't figure how to replicate it - yet - then that can't be it. YEESH. If they had done the recall when they figured it out, it would have been a lot better for everyone.

I like my Volkswagen. If Americans had decided to buy Vauxhalls and Cortinas instead of the cheap Toyopets 40 years ago, we'd probably have wound up in the same place anyway.