Can someone clear up something for me? wood question

[ack1961]

OK, I know I'd get ripped to shreds if I asked this question elsewhere, but here goes.
I'm new-ish and I really don't understand where the actual wood comes into play on electric guitars and basses (other than weight and aesthetics).

Doesn't the vibration of the strings get picked-up by the magnets/windings of the pickups and transferred through the electronics (volume pots, tone pots, eq, etc.) and then out to the output jack to whatever you're using to amplify/enhance that signal?

I apologize for such a rudimentary question, but I keep reading about the virtues of say, "western mongolian beaverwood vs inner-city newark basswood" and why one sounds better ("has better tonal qualities", as I've read) than the other...i still don't see where in the signal chain the wood has the chance to impact the tone.  I mean the electronic response to string vibration is almost instantaneous at the output jack.

I do fully understand that a number of people who frequent certain forums are completely full of crap, but I read about it often.
I am not trying to stir up any crap, I really want to understand what I'm not understanding about tonewoods.

Thanks,
Steve

[Dave W]

Think of it as a feedback loop. Vibrations transmitted to the body and neck affect the signals created by the string vibrations.

Different wood species absorb and enhance different frequencies, and within the same species, different densities do the same. The result is different tones from different woods.

The only way to keep wood out of the tone would be to make a bridge and tuners so heavy that inertia blocks any of the vibrations from reaching the body and neck. That's not practical, if it's even possible.

[gweimer]

The only way to keep wood out of the tone would be to make a bridge and tuners so heavy that inertia blocks any of the vibrations from reaching the body and neck. That's not practical, if it's even possible.

I've argued in the past that the 2Tek bridge might be doing some of that.  The individual tone arms seem to isolate the string vibrations pretty well.  I've heard from more than one poster on the various boards that while the 2Tek is a great bridge, it tends to make all basses sound very similar.

[patman]

I'll admit to being somewhat of a heathen here... I'll even advance the theory that, while different woods etc./ styles of construction (i.e. bolt on / neck thru) will have slight effect on tone --the effect to my ear is minimal as long as good quality materials are being used.

Some basses do sound bad because of cheap plywood etc., but I've heard some poplar Mexi Precisions, for instance, that sounded really good.  Danelectros are masonite, and have a unique, very usable tone.

A good guitar will sing without even being plugged in.  YMMV.

[TBird1958]

 I'd have to say I can tell a tonal difference from wood choice.
Using my standard '89 'Bird with the maho/walnut 9 ply construction verses the '08 Nikki Sixx Mk.II as an example there is a quite darker, tighter more "modern" tone from the latter. As construction and pickips are otherwise the same I'd account this to the woods used.

Poly vs. Nitro? 

[nofi]

some people think 'composite' is a tone wood.

[patman]

Anybody ever heard one of the composite basses made by Ibanez or Cort?

Never heard one...wonder how they sound, and how that fits in with the whole "wood" thing.

[nofi]

i heard a composite upright at another site and the tone is very harsh and 'un-warm'. did not care for it. i expect any acoustic composite instruments would suffer from the same malady.

[ack1961]

I'll admit to being somewhat of a heathen here... I'll even advance the theory that, while different woods etc./ styles of construction (i.e. bolt on / neck thru) will have slight effect on tone --the effect to my ear is minimal as long as good quality materials are being used.

Some basses do sound bad because of cheap plywood etc., but I've heard some poplar Mexi Precisions, for instance, that sounded really good.  Danelectros are masonite, and have a unique, very usable tone.

A good guitar will sing without even being plugged in.  YMMV.

Funny that you mention plywood.  I have a Gretsch Electromatic shortscale, and it sounds wonderful with flats on it. Even though it's plywood, it's a real beauty, and it has a great sound.

I agree about the Dano...I have a '63 Longscale RI that sounds pretty nasally unplugged, but warms up nicely when given the juice.  Certainly unique.  I don't like the way it sits so far forward, that's all.

I guess the fact that I have so many inexpensive (you can say cheap) basses made out of every thing from plywood to Northern Ash kind of spurred my initial question.  I'm also building basses from slabs, and I'm reading that certain woods (such as the Walnut I'm currently using) have too dark of a tone to use in a bass.  I think it's nonsense.

I've heard people say that basswood sucks, but I defy anyone to pick up my G&L L2k Tribute and tell me it sounds like crap because it's made of basswood.  If you can't get good tone out of that thing, it's your fingers, not the wood.

Thanks for all of the replies.  Much appreciated.

Steve

[rahock]

i heard a composite upright at another site and the tone is very harsh and 'un-warm'. did not care for it. i expect any acoustic composite instruments would suffer from the same malady.

I didn't care for it either but I have to admit, it didn't boink like all the others I've heard
Rick 

[Pilgrim]

Funny that you mention plywood.  I have a Gretsch Electromatic shortscale, and it sounds wonderful with flats on it. Even though it's plywood, it's a real beauty, and it has a great sound.

I agree about the Dano...I have a '63 Longscale RI that sounds pretty nasally unplugged, but warms up nicely when given the juice.  Certainly unique.  I don't like the way it sits so far forward, that's all.

I guess the fact that I have so many inexpensive (you can say cheap) basses made out of every thing from plywood to Northern Ash kind of spurred my initial question.  I'm also building basses from slabs, and I'm reading that certain woods (such as the Walnut I'm currently using) have too dark of a tone to use in a bass.  I think it's nonsense.

I've heard people say that basswood sucks, but I defy anyone to pick up my G&L L2k Tribute and tell me it sounds like crap because it's made of basswood.  If you can't get good tone out of that thing, it's your fingers, not the wood.

Thanks for all of the replies.  Much appreciated.

Steve

Steve, is yours the 2202 Electromatic Jr. Jet?  If so, I have one and those are FANTASTIC short scale basses.  

I have reservations about how much impact the type of wood has on sound.  It's probably some factor, but I think that the strings, pickups and electronics (as well as hollow vs. solid body) make a lot more difference in the instrument's sound.

[Dave W]

Everything makes its own contribution and can make a difference in tone.

Whether a certain wood (or plywood, etc.) sounds better or worse than another is just a matter of opinion. But different woods do sound different, everything else being equal.

[ack1961]

Steve, is yours the 2202 Electromatic Jr. Jet?  If so, I have one and those are FANTASTIC short scale basses.  

I have reservations about how much impact the type of wood has on sound.  It's probably some factor, but I think that the strings, pickups and electronics (as well as hollow vs. solid body) make a lot more difference in the instrument's sound.

Yes, it's the 2202 Jr. Jet, and I totally agree.  For $200 new, it's a real steal & a great traveler, too.

I thoroughly agree with your last statement.  I haven't been playing very long, but strings seem to be the big x-factor on basses.  A pair of Roto 66's vs a pair of D'Addario Chromes totally change the characteristics of a bass for me.

Steve

[Pilgrim]

Whether a certain wood (or plywood, etc.) sounds better or worse than another is just a matter of opinion. But different woods do sound different, everything else being equal.

There you go!  I have no argument with that whatsoever.  The key is "...everything else being equal..." which is seldom the case.

[uwe]

You can hear even unplugged the difference between a mahogany bass and a maple one clearly. The maple one will sound brighter and will be much quicker "there" (attack) while the maho one will be darker, goodnatured and a bit slow.

I've played one of those composite Ibanez basses - they sounded fine (B string was an issue on the one I tried but that might have been for other reasons) with that typical tone-eveness non-wood basses be they graphite or composite have. I don't like that at all, it sounds sterile and "un-string-instrumentish" to me, like a keyboard.  Give me a dead spot anytime. You can always play around it or use it for good effect.

I'm no fan of huge bridges at all anymore. I think a Fender for instance loses quite a bit of what makes it a Fender if you replace the - visually gruesome - original Fender bridge with something more solid. You hear more wood with that light bridge.