In our ongoing "Kiss & Their Tribulations"-series, another sequel ...

[OldManC]

I was already using LAME encoded VBRs

I'm sure that's the trick right there. I should have mentioned using it with LAME. It's night and day to me. Even my wife noticed and she's not an audiophile at all.

[Highlander]

The Elder was quite enjoyable, I thought; not their best... Bob Ezrin at the console, wasn't it George...?

[OldManC]

Yes. Their second pairing.

[uwe]

Yup, and he had just finished The Wall with Floyd. Which probably explains it all! That said, I remember clearly that when The Wall came out, all the Floyd dopeheads (if you took dope back then, you liked Floyd and vice versa, there were no exceptions) at school were aghast, it wasn't the Meddle/Dark Side/Wish you were here-Floyd they knew. They had survived Animals because they appreciated that that was consciously made to sound difficult, but The Wall was seen as "teeny-bop" and a sell-out. It took some time before it became the icon in Floyd's body of work it is today. Which goes to show that Ezrin has a tendency to take bands where they have never been before. I wish he would have produced Deep Purple just once.  

[nofi]

i am still a hopless vinyl guy. sometimes you will still find pot seeds in the gatefold. man does that feel like a million years ago.

[gearHed289]

i am still a hopless vinyl guy. sometimes you will still find pot seeds in the gatefold. man does that feel like a million years ago.

Ha ha! I remember unexpectedly stumbling across some fine gold nuggets inside Caress of Steel after my cousin had visited. 

Animals was the last great Pink Floyd album. Actually, it was pretty much the last Pink Floyd album, period.

I suppose I should pick up a copy of the Elder some day. I was well over KISS by then, though I came back for some of their 80s and 90s stuff. Revenge was a good rock album (also produced by Ezrin).   

[uwe]

Tommy and Eric have put words in the Führer's mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOLfppXhsk&feature=related

[Dave W]

    

[uwe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypdNg1Yh890&feature=player_embedded#

Not bad. Didn't know that much dry ice was still legal in a small TV studio.   I can't help laughing witnessing how much they have housetrained poor Tommy Thayer to sound like Ace, erratic timing, sloppy string to string technique and bad bending included. He must have rehearsed months for it.

You know, there was a time when he was a smooth and melodic (with spot-on bending), albeit slightly generic LP player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YpQUK42auY&feature=fvw

Loss of blond curls must affect your playing style, but then you can't hold on to eighteen forever, can you?  

How do people like the new album? I only got mine today, haven't heard it yet.

[OldManC]

I've given it a couple of listens so far. I really like some of it. The bits where they actually channel 1977 sound great to this old fan. Tommy does a passable job of copping Ace's style but his timing still doesn't match the idiosyncratic perfection of Mr. Frehley. BTW Uwe, Tommy's been in the band since 2003 or so (and has been involved with the band since the early-mid 90's), so I don't think he needed to practice to get there.

As for any sloppiness...the first clip is live. The Black n Blue clip isn't. That alone makes a difference, don't you think? I will slightly concede to your view of Ace's limitations as a guitarist but will always point out that, in that style of playing, Ace is still a better player than one of his idols, Jimmy Page, who has always been even sloppier and looser on stage, and even in the studio. Most people still seem to think of Pagey as a guitar god though. Ace's playing, when he's bothered being sober and trying, has always been stellar in the style in which he plays. It 'aint Malmsteen, but he never meant it to be.

[gweimer]

Ace is still a better player than one of his idols, Jimmy Page, who has always been even sloppier and looser on stage, and even in the studio. Most people still seem to think of Pagey as a guitar god though.

I've always thought of Page as a production wizard more than a guitar god.  His style always seemed to work pretty well with Zep, but he was never my favorite guitarist.  He has a great sense of feel, though.

[gearHed289]

I love Zeppelin, and I love Page, but a stellar lead guitarist he is not. Great producer, innovator, writer, and layerer of guitars, but some of his solos sound like a chicken running across the fingerboard. 

[OldManC]

but some of his solos sound like a chicken running across the fingerboard. 

That is actually an apt description! Made me think of "Hot Dog". 



I agree with both posts above. You can't deny the talent that came out of the Zep camp throughout their career, but I think Page's rep as a guitarist may have been a bit exaggerated.

Also, KISS and Zep were such different animals that I don't think they can be compared anyway, other than the fact that KISS was influenced by Zep and Ace as a guitarist especially. I grew up with them as 'my' band, so I know I'm biased. I love Ace's playing for all the things that Uwe doesn't like (or at least appreciate).

[gearHed289]

Man, nobody lays down a bass line with their feet like JPJ. Crazy early use of a harmonizer on Plant's vox.

[OldManC]

Not to take away from Pagey's production talent, but I think JPJ was as much a part of that equation as he was. At least after the first few albums.