Crappy drummers

Hornisse · July 28, 2009, 01:37:31 PM

What do you think about this statement:

"One thing I've noticed over the years. The worst drummers have the biggest kits, loaded with all kinds of gizmos they don't need and don't know how to use tastefully. The best drummers I've ever known tend to have the smallest kits."

After 7 years with the same band I am taking a break. Our longtime drummer left for another band because they play and pay more. He deserves it as he is a great drummer. We auditioned several drummers and I liked one in particular but the leader decided that one guy had more "personality." IMHO, personality does not make a good drummer. The guy plays with a metronome all of the time and still speeds up and slows down. He does great on the click track songs but does inappropriate fills and gets off the beat. He says he's only done 6 gigs with the band as an excuse. We rehearsed a good month before even playing out with him. A buddy of mine saw the band last weekend and called me the "miracle worker" because I could actually hold things (barely) together with the guy. The other guys in the band are indifferent but the guy just does not swing at all. I guess I was spoiled playing with the original guy for so many years. It was like we were on auto pilot. Guess I will miss playing, but I had not played in a band for 3 years before these guys called me up. (and I wasn't even their first choice!)

Oh yeah, our original drummer had a Yamaha kit with bass drum, one tom, one floor tom and the snare. The new guy has a 5K DW kit with all the bells and whistles.......

Dave W · July 28, 2009, 02:34:30 PM

Most of the drummers I like best have smaller kits but I'm not sure there's cause and effect there. OTOH in some cases buying all the bells and whistles can be a bad sign, and in this case it may be.

I feel for you. Sounds like a break is in order.

lowend1 · July 28, 2009, 02:46:22 PM

I don't know what kind of music you're playing, but the groove is always paramount. A poorly executed pocket will kill your live show, your songs and ultimately your band. There are plenty of bands that record with a session drummer because the "band member" cant keep it together when the red light is on. You can learn to live / work with a personality, but a rhythm section that doesn't "feel" the song will make the whole band sound "off". It's the kiss of death.

jmcgliss · July 28, 2009, 03:31:29 PM

I can empathize. I know one adult drummer who takes lessons (good on him for that), but the result is parts being notated for practicing the drums...yet the feel and ability to groove with the bass is missing. I think it's the guy's teacher who is not hip to the blues/soul/R&B direction we're going now. I've suggested some of Friedland's material that break blues riffs down into the correct beat styles for every example...space and timing is so much more important than playing a full kit and smothering the groove.

uwe · July 28, 2009, 03:35:06 PM

I dunno, perhaps, after having played together with someone else for so long, you should do a couple of rehearsals just with him - drums and bass - with and without click track ... THEN decide.

Rhythm N. Bliss · July 28, 2009, 05:41:23 PM

I'm from the More is More school. LOVE playing Double Bass Kits!!
Face it~ no matter how fast a drummer's right foot is, he can't do fills & rhythms like a good double bass guy!!
OTOH~ I just passed an audition to be drummer in a full-on METAL band.
I took only half my kit & got the job cuz I hit hard & got in the groove.

Anyway~

You have my sympathy. "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing"

lowend1 · July 28, 2009, 06:21:21 PM

Quote from: Rhythm N. Bliss on July 28, 2009, 05:41:23 PM
Face it~ no matter how fast a drummer's right foot is, he can't do fills & rhythms like a good double bass guy!!

Leonard Haze on the first two Yesterday & Today albums - 1976/77. Pay special heed to the breakdown after the guitar solo.
Besides, most double bass guys ain't all that good.

SKATE RAT · July 28, 2009, 07:04:39 PM

A BAND IS ONLY AS GOOD AS IT'S DRUMMER.

pamlicojack · July 28, 2009, 07:39:52 PM

Quote from: SKATE RAT on July 28, 2009, 07:04:39 PM
A BAND IS ONLY AS GOOD AS IT'S DRUMMER.

This is what I call the "Night Ranger" Theory. Despite having Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson, most people I know think they sucked because their drummer was terrible...

SKATE RAT · July 28, 2009, 07:57:19 PM

i think Night ranger sucked because they were Night ranger.

lowend1 · July 28, 2009, 08:13:01 PM

Quote from: pamlicojack on July 28, 2009, 07:39:52 PM
This is what I call the "Night Ranger" Theory. Despite having Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson, most people I know think they sucked because their drummer was terrible...

Not a big NR fan meself, BUT...
The widdly-widdly leanings of Gillis and Watson aside, they were essentially commercial metal (or whatever), and Kelly Keagy's role as drummer / lead vocalist did not require him to be a technician. Since he sang lead on "Sister Christian" (their biggest hit), it's hard to say he was terrible - maybe boring, but not terrible. The thing that bothered me about him was that he set up sideways on stage.

Freuds_Cat · July 28, 2009, 09:43:52 PM

(spoken in my best Marvin the paranoid android voice) Dont talk to me about Drummers.

Hornisse · July 28, 2009, 10:03:11 PM

Some great responses guys! We do 70's through today covers and play a lot of private parties, weddings, etc. We played at Cool River last Saturday and although the crowd was really into it I just wasn't feeling it. Maybe I should have had a few shots. I will be playing 2 more gigs with them though. This Friday night at Shooters and then next Saturday at Carlos n Charlies. I'm thinking I'll still take a break though.

I used to love Yesterday And Today when I was in High School. Another double bass guy I love was the late great Cozy Powell.

Rhythm N. Bliss · July 28, 2009, 11:54:52 PM

Y&T just got their first 2 YESTERDAY & TODAY albums Remastered & they're available on their site!!

www.meniketti.com

They also have a few YESTERDAY & TODAY shirts tooo
Well if you guys loved Y&T with Haze as I do you'd probly love 'em now even more with Mike Vanderhule on drums.
He uses double pedals with a single bass drum. He can do the Jimmy Degrasso era stuff GREAT (Jimmy D used Double basses, y'know & went on to play with MEGADETH) & has a fast right foot like Haze too!!
He even played a few dates this Summer in Europe playing with one arm cuz he fractured his left wrist.
No one was disappointed, he played amazingly!!!!!

Have a nice Summer vacation, Hornisse, & good luck finding a band with a drummer you love again!

Cozy was THE MAN! RIP

Basvarken · July 29, 2009, 02:10:23 AM

I'm with Uwe here. Maybe you should give it a little time.
Of course it is important that the rhythm section is in the pocket. Always.
But don't forget that you played with this other drummer for years. You knew each other inside out.
You corrected each others flaws or mishaps.
This new guy has a different style. Different flaws and mishaps.
Plus he doesn't know yours yet ( assuming that you're not perfect

)

I had a similar experience when I joined another band next to the band I had been playing in for years.
The drummer in the new band has a more lazy style, more after the beat. He likes to hang back a bit.
It took me a while to lock with him.

Smaller kits are cool!
As long as the bass drum is huge.

Cozy Powell couldn't groove at all if you ask me...