70's and QC & LP Sigs

[copacetic]

Gnu hier by way of Uwe who insisted I give it a try (via the Pit)
I've been looking through all the threads and the expertize displayed here is frightening. Everytime I think of getting a word in edge wize someone come in with a retort/reply/threat/ that just brings things to new levels. (by Edge wize I mean no reference to them. However by mentioning Them with ref to Van Morrisson I did see him and his band several years ago and the bass player was playing a JC Sig and got some great tone......which leads me to this thread).

I have heard and witnessed much over the years about basses (I know nothing about guitars and they should all be splintered and used for making coffee tables for books about basses) made in the 70's. With respect to Gibson I can bring attention to two particular basses I have known as the Les Paul Signatures. One in yellowish sunburst and the other gold top. The workmanship on both of these is superb. There has never been any updating or replacement parts necessary (as opposed to my JC Sig..thats another discussion later). I often wondered if the larger headstock was necessary but that seemed to be 'standard' in the 70's along with the decal logo (which of course I would have preferred an inlay and the 'Les Paul Signature' in layed as well but I can look over that because of the sound of the thing).
I also have to mention here if there was ever a Fender sounding bass by Gibson this has to be it. The fact that it is semihollow and has those characteristics as well not only makes those who posess those mass merchandized typical sounding planks go want to go 'running home to mother' (quoting someone from this forum on an unrelated thread) not only go running home but squatting in a fetal position and begging forgiveness.
Uh sorry to get off subject but the fact that they named a street in NY today after U2 set me off.
One of the real interesting characteristics of the LP Sig also is the binding on the lower horn where some attetion had to be given. The pickup itself was a major unoticed fact in thoses days as well without even getting into the subject of low impedence and that 3 way switch. As we all know Gibson has always been timely.To me actually the one of the greatest bass pickups is the '53 Gibson pickup on their first electric basses which lingered into some of their early semi hollow body's '59ish  some I have to admit the TB Plusses are quite an addition as well. You all know this any how.
So greetings and nice to be here.

[OldManC]

Welcome to the 'post!

[Nocturnal]

Welcome!

[Chris P.]

(I know nothing about guitars and they should all be splintered and used for making coffee tables for books about basses)

LOL


Welcome! The LP Sigs I have seen were all well built basses.

[Bart!]

Welcome!
Ans as for the LP sigs, I`m fortunate enough to own one. Indeed a very good bass.

[uwe]

Hi Stephen, nice to have you here. "Bout time too!

The LP Signature comparison to a (good) Fender P is nothing new to me. My Fender playing buddy here always says that about my LP Sig "good enough to be an old Fender". When you look at the woods, the pup position and the fact that Les Paul actually admired Leo Fender for forging a bass sound (he wanted to emulate it with a bit more flexibility), it's no big wonder. My LP Sig reminds me of my Fender Sting Signature in sound more than anything (and that is, yes I admit it, a great sound, silly Sting inlay or not), just a lttle blurrier with more billowing bass due to the hollow bodyconstruction no doubt. That LP Sig pup has singlecoil character in certain settings and adds humbucker grunt in others.

That is probably the core of my gripe about the Epi JC Sig: Mine just doesn't emulate that Fender sound with that presence shine around it like a halo, it rather thuds like you would in fact expect from a Gibson bass. It has nothing to do with the strings, it's just the nature of that bass.

Uwe

[Barklessdog]

I should have bought that $49 LP Sig pup and put it in a Epi JC, played & kept it or flip it.

[copacetic]

That would have been an interesting project. Did someone here get that pickup. Be nice to hear whatthey are going to do with it. I always wondered what they would sound like in a solidbody.
I have a JC prototype with a pickup made by the notorius J.T. Ribiloff. It was done in the mid nineties and sound like a cross between a TBPlus and an original LP Sig. It looks like a TB Plus and is quite assertive. I am going to try and rewire the bass with a 3-5pt varitone switch.

[Chris P.]

Rob has an Epi with lo impedance Gibson pick up and he's very happy. Basvarken (Rob), Bart! and I compared my normal Epi with Rob's modified and Bart's LP Sig. Rob liked his one best, if I recal it right.

I liked Bart!'s real one most. That one had mojo, something special to me.

But Basvarken will pop in and tell more. I'm eating boerenkool with worst, so not much time to post here.

[uwe]

"It looks like a TB Plus and is quite assertive."

Indeed, especially on a maple bass. The EB-650 was similar to the LP Sig in construction (multiply maple body, maple neck, though much larger sustain block) and equipped with two TB Plus chrome pups in the early nineties. It defied all preconceptions you might have had about a hollowbody bass because it had one roaring monster tone. To tone a TB Plus down so it actually gels with a hollowbody, you would probably have to move it all the way up the neck in EB-2 position.

[Basvarken]

Yep I really dig my modified JCS with Gibson Lo-Z pickup.
I got the idea off Jules' site where I saw this picture of an early (prototype?) Les Paul Signature with a cream pickup and chrome ring similar to the ones on Les Paul Basses and Triumphs.





Here's an old pic. In the meanwhile I've removed that strapbutton on the side of the heel. Plus I've added a chrome handrest over the bridge.




Here's a short sample


And here's a song that I recorded with the modified JCS through an Ampeg V4B.

[Highlander]

Never hear of this one before today (sad little sheltered life I lead)- looks great...

[copacetic]

Hey I like the way that sits in the mix w/dat Lo z. (superior to the Electar). I use the Dean Markley flats and I like the thuddy sweetness.(which of course is the primary characteristic of the LP SIG, sweetness that is).
Uwe I think you have something there. After reading your comment about the 650, I recall some 10+ years ago when I had asked Ribiloff about some of his work he did mention that he had been trying for years to come up w/pups for semi acoustic basses and thus the one in my prototype where he was using the original LP SIG as a model with heavier winding etc. I recall him mentioning that the pups in the RD Artist(or was it the Victory or both?) were his as well but my memory might be vague there. I do remember him saying that the 750's were using Bartolini's (which to me are a little bit too....raspy for a semi acoustic).
Actually what I'd like to see/hear is what a semi-acoustic would sound like with the new SG-Ri mock humbucker and whatever is being used at the bridge. I mention this as I just recently acquired a Supreme and...it might very well be the most versatile bass of the Gibson lot in terms of sound and I will have to say that the maple top really gives it something that make me feel like I am in the modern world yet feet firmly in the muddy ground.(actually nothing can quite get that humbucker mud no matter how much we try and discnnect the wires leading from out tone controls in the deep cavities and turn up the bass and down the tone on amps)

[Chris P.]

+ 1. I asked that question sometimes before here. An EB2 with the SG RI pikc ups could be great! So the TB+ at the neck and the mini-humbucker a bit more to the middle.

[uwe]

"when I had asked Ribiloff about some of his work ..."

Ribiloff (or Riboloff) followed Bruce Bolen as head of Gibson's R & D department after Bruce Bolen had fallen from grace with Henry J. He and Phil Jones had a row in the early nineties about what the new stalwart model should be: Ribiloff wanted a 34" scale SG bass, Jones favored a 34" scale LP bass ("the bass Gibson should have made in the fifties"), arguing that "a long scale SG will never balance". In the end Jones won by circumventing Ribiloff and winning the sales people over. I guess Ribiloff had some consolation later, when the - albeit shortlived - SG-Z was introduced in the late nineties. And sure enough: It didn't balance! 

Glad you like the Supreme, Stephen, your description of it as (successfully) merging old and new is quite apt. Nothing can of course replicate the mudbucker sound, it's that idiosyncratic combo of bottomless depth and the hoarseness of the signal. Active basses can reach down deep (my Kubicki Factor is a prime example, in one setting it is probably the deepest-sounding of my many basses), their sublows always have something smooth and keyboard-like to them, the sublows from a mudbucker are jagged and irregular, you can hear them emanating from a string.

Uwe