1976 Thunderbird... with a twist

[Dave W]

That's just becuase your Kramer was old growth aluminum. The new stuff doesn't compare. 

[lowend1]

My biggest issue with the new birds is the small headstock, mini tuners, and black hardware (spoiled by my '76). For that reason, I prefer the Elitist over the Gibbies.

[chromium]

I agree with you Uwe about the comparison between new and old being inherently flawed, but if I wasn't a total bass geek and was just a casual listener, I would probably have trouble discerning the difference between all the different Tbird offerings - new and old.  I would answer Barend's question of how the new ones stack up by saying that there are the obvious cosmetic differences, and then there are all those magic subtlties that come into play with an old instrument vs. new - but from the the casual listeners point of view, it's still all very much Tbird in sound!

From a compulsive bass addict perspective, I could probably justify keeping one from every generation for all their respective sonic variations and look-and-feel characteristics.  I think the fact that this 76 was wired up like a modern bird, and has some similar sonic characteristics, made it easier for me to let go of that Elitist.  I might have been inclined to keep both if I had heard what the Bicentenniel sounds like in its native state, as I tend to hoard basses for their sounds.  But I'm glad that didn't happen from the standpoint of my Paypal account!   

I always think back to those sound clips that George did of all the different birds.  Some of the Grecos, Epi Japans, etc... really held their own against some of the older basses.

[barend]

thanks for sharing your experiences.
I guess it is the same discussion as ´is an old Fender better then a new one´...my experience is that it is not better or worse just different. An old bass has been played a lot and the wood is dryer, resulting in a more ´vintage´ old school sound, a dryer sound so to speak. But it doesn´t have to be better. I don´t how that is with Gibson basses but that is what I noticed comparing old and new Fenders.

[Dave W]

Old wood is not drier. It reaches the same equilibrium moisture content as any wood in the same atmosphere. No matter how many musicians insist otherwise. The laws of physics aren't suspended for guitar woods.

As for old supposedly sounding better, that's subjective. I've yet to see a double-blind test where listeners could reliably tell the difference.

[barend]

ok, I thought the wood was actualy drier, at least it sounds drier. I mean less bright.
If an old bass or guitar has been played very much I think you can hear it. There is a difference in sound between old and new. Not better or worse. It it is hard to describe and rather personal.

[doombass]

I can't answer that question. The last time I played a Bicentennial had to be about 8 years ago and I never adjusted the controls.

I can tell you for sure that in a series circuit, all current is the same at every point in the circuit. It's possible to turn the furthest pickup off by a switch (or a control knob used as an on/off switch). It's not possible for each pickup to be independently adjustable for volume. If they are, then it's not a series circuit.

The Bicentennials have two volume controls and has a series circuit.The bridge pickup is connected to ground in one end and the lead goes through the neck pickup with volume controls on 10. The volume controls are wired in parallell to the pickups so that they shortcut/bypass each pickup. You can see each pair of parallell pickup/pot as one unit in series with the other pickup/pot unit.

[Dave W]

The Bicentennials have two volume controls and has a series circuit.The bridge pickup is connected to ground in one end and the lead goes through the neck pickup with volume controls on 10. The volume controls are wired in parallell to the pickups so that they shortcut/bypass each pickup. You can see each pair of parallell pickup/pot as one unit in series with the other pickup/pot unit.

I.e. it's not a true series circuit. It's a series/parallel circuit that's different than a typical guitar circuit.

[doombass]

I.e. it's not a true series circuit. It's a series/parallel circuit that's different than a typical guitar circuit.

Correct. Only time where it is true series would be when the volume controls are on 10.

[uwe]

Joe, your Epi Eli TB has arrived - wonderful condition (thanks for the extra pup rings etc), so obviously lovingly cared for, and with an incredibly low, yet buzzfree action for a TBird. Very pleased with the sound. Bit darker/warmer than a modern day Gibson TB which has more raucuous mids and I actually prefer the sound of the Epi's bridge pup to the one of the Gibson in solo mode. The Epi's sounds fuller.

And it is set neck (as you have always said). You can tell the telltale thin line in the finish where the set neck merges into the body. Sustain is perhaps not quite as strong as on a neck-thru-TB, but certainly ample enough.  A worthy Donnervogel

Vielen Dank, it will have a good home!

Uwe                                                                                                         

[chromium]

and with an incredibly low, yet buzzfree action for a TBird.                            

I did that 3-point bridge setup trick that I learned from one of you guys over at the DP - to rearrange the fixed-height saddles to better approximate the flatter radius of the fretboard.  That allowed me to dial it in a lot lower without buzz.  Worked like a champ! 

I must say, they did a really nice job with those Elitists.  Great bass, I'm glad you are enjoying it, and thanks again!

[rockinrayduke]

to rearrange the fixed-height saddles to better approximate the flatter radius of the fretboard.  That allowed me to dial it in a lot lower without buzz.  Worked like a champ!

Tell me more about this.

[chromium]

Tell me more about this.

Looking at the bridge saddles the way they were originally positioned, the E and G string saddles were low, and the A and D saddles were high.  The creates a nice arch across all four strings, but the problem is that the fingerboard radius is relatively flat.  In trying to get the action set med-low, the E and G strings would ratlle all to hell, but the A and D strings would be just right.

Since you can't adjust the height of the individual saddles on the 3-point, I rearranged them so that (IIRC) the high saddles were on the E and A string, and the low saddles were on the D and G string.  You then tilt the bridge (using the two large studs) so that the action of the strings are sort of equal in height across the width of the fingerboard (with just a bit more height on the E and A strings, since they have more play).  It looks kind of wonky, since the 3-point takes on this odd, slanted stature, but the end result is that the saddles align better with the fingerboard radius this way - enabling you to drop the overall action lower.  Wish I had a photo - It's easier to visualize than explain.

I didn't find that I needed to file any of the saddles after I rearranged them, and while some of the saddles are cut for the larger strings, I didn't have any issue using that saddle with a smaller gauge string.  I want to say that I reordered them like this (but it has been a while, so I could be wrong...):

   A -> E
   D -> A
   E -> D

Prior to moving the saddles, I marked where the intonation of each was set using a pencil, and that got me back in the ballpark after the changes were made.  Also, I setup the center stud to hike the bridge up just a tad bit on the side closest to the neck.  Just enough to give the strings good downward pressure on the saddles, but not enough to instigate the rear studs to start pulling up out of the body (which I seem to read about quite a bit).

If anybody has anything to add to that, please do!

[rockinrayduke]

Thanks Joe! You may have just saved me $100 on a Supertone bridge! That damn A string saddle always feels too high for me and this info will probably fix it. I also wish you had a pic but I think I get it from the great description.

[chromium]

Hey no prob - hope it helps.  I'm just regurgitating what I've learned from all these other folks around here, the 'pit, and Jules' forum.  I probably never would have got that thing setup right otherwise!