1976 Thunderbird... with a twist

chromium · October 16, 2008, 02:12:52 PM

@Herr Moderator - the bird will fly tomorrow. Vielen Dank!

@Chris- I really like the sound you get from your bass, and that only helped to give me GAS for a 70s bird. I'm just thankful you pointed out it was in fact the TBird making those sounds - and *not* the 4005!

If you do ever make the mod, I'd recommend just building a new harness w/new pots and jack, and just lifting the old stuff out to keep it all intact. You would only have to desolder the pickup leads and bridge ground in that scenario - making it easy (and relatively undetectable) to revert back if you wanted.

Chris P. · October 16, 2008, 02:16:34 PM

Wow, thanks

doombass · October 16, 2008, 02:23:07 PM

That's a nice one you caught. My refinned white one had the pup's wired in parallell when I got it. I did'nt like it one bit. When both pickups was dialed in full the sound was thin and the bridge pup outdid the neck pickup. There's a possibilty that they were wired out of phase so maybe it would have been better to switch the leads from the neck pickup. I wired it in series like the original recipe and it sounds like it should in my opinion and it is even better sounding than the stock Sunburst. The Bicentennials deliver my favorite sound. And Chris, I believe these came with mirror cap knobs or speed knobs. The speed knobs seemed to be used on the later ones from what I've seen.

TBird1958 · October 16, 2008, 02:29:20 PM

My Greenie was wired that way too..........and it sounded the same: thin, when I got a pup for it the wiring was done back to the original layout, which I like better too.

chromium · October 16, 2008, 02:45:39 PM

The setting I like on the Thunderbird is when the neck pickup is full on, and the bridge pickup is backed off just enough to bring in the thickness. With the bridge pickup on full, the sound gets thin and kind of anemic. This seems to be the same behavior on the Epilitist, and on my EB-2D and EB-3 as well- guess that's a typical trait of pickups in parallel (?)

I might have to try the series sound myself one of these days. I do like what I've heard of it, just haven't ever experienced it first hand.

Chris P. · October 17, 2008, 01:53:06 AM

I have this 335-book and you see pics with all kind of knobs. Bells, speeds, mirror caps, and all three in amber and black. Sometimes I think they just use what they have. Most Bicentennials I've seen have sped knobs, but IO think they look cheap. I replaced them, of course I can order new ones and I kept the old ones to be sure. My Bird had holes drilled in, so replacing the knobs won't lower the valuie any more:)

uwe · October 17, 2008, 04:26:46 AM

So to get this straight:

If my Bicentennial sounds fullest with both pups full throttle and the neck pup on its own more subdued and the bridge pup on its own just bony, then that indicates in series, right?

And if on all my other Birds dialing down the bridge pup (with the neck pup full on)makes the sound fuller and more "there", then that means parallel?

Uwe

Dave W · October 17, 2008, 09:15:45 AM

If you can control each pickup's volume independently, then the pickups are wired in parallel.

uwe · October 17, 2008, 11:40:47 AM

Huh? But all Bicentennials came with two vol and one tone knob(s), yet were wired in series! So how do I know whether they work independently or not? If I dial down one pup, then that obviously affects the sound. How do I know whether it is just that one pup's sound falling away or a direct influence of that pup's vol pot?

barend · October 17, 2008, 02:35:37 PM

Sorry for this off topic question. But how is the sound of the Thunderbird IV basses compared to the older models?

Dave W · October 17, 2008, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: uwe on October 17, 2008, 11:40:47 AM
Huh? But all Bicentennials came with two vol and one tone knob(s), yet were wired in series! So how do I know whether they work independently or not? If I dial down one pup, then that obviously affects the sound. How do I know whether it is just that one pup's sound falling away or a direct influence of that pup's vol pot?

I can't answer that question. The last time I played a Bicentennial had to be about 8 years ago and I never adjusted the controls.

I can tell you for sure that in a series circuit, all current is the same at every point in the circuit. It's possible to turn the furthest pickup off by a switch (or a control knob used as an on/off switch). It's not possible for each pickup to be independently adjustable for volume. If they are, then it's not a series circuit.

uwe · October 17, 2008, 04:10:44 PM

Quote from: barend on October 17, 2008, 02:35:37 PM
Sorry for this off topic question. But how is the sound of the Thunderbird IV basses compared to the older models?

Any 2 pup TBird is a IV - of any era. One pup Birds were "Thunderbird II" and regularly built only in the sixties (the eighties saw a small edition creep out). Modern Birds began in 1987 with the here (unjustly!) much derided black hardware and the black plastic "teflon" soapbars called TB Plus Ceramic Humbuckers.

To my ears, new Birds sound fatter with more sublows and less overdriven then either sixties or Bicentennial Birds. Owning a variety from all eras, I don't think the difference is huge though - pups and headstock size excepted, the TB IV is still the same animal as in the sixties: a nine ply neck thru construction with maho wings. We're all trainspotters and connaisseurs here so we hear or believe to hear nuances no one else will give a damn about. While 80 % of this forum will now swoop down on me, I think the modern TB Plus pups emulate the sound of the sixties pups to quite some extent. I don't think any TBird player in the sixties or seventies would have rejected a modern TBird had an alien intelligent lifeform brought him one from the future.

I think the sound of a new Bird to an old one compares to the difference in sound between a Ric 4001 and a modern Ric 4003 (both uncapped). The voice of these basses has been retained over the decades.

Uwe

TBird1958 · October 17, 2008, 04:32:43 PM

Not having a 60's era one to compare, I'm left with 70's vs. a "modern" post '88 'Bird to judge, they're certainly different from each other and for me each era has its own good and bad points. The pups on modern ones are fine sounding to me - I just wish they'd offer them in chrome along with the rest of the hardware as an option.

chromium · October 17, 2008, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: uwe on October 17, 2008, 04:10:44 PM
Any 2 pup TBird is a IV - of any era. One pup Birds were "Thunderbird II" and regularly built only in the sixties (the eighties saw a small edition creep out). Modern Birds began in 1987 with the here (unjustly!) much derided black hardware and the black plastic "teflon" soapbars called TB Plus Ceramic Humbuckers.

To my ears, new Birds sound fatter with more sublows and less overdriven then either sixties or Bicentennial Birds. Owning a variety from all eras, I don't think the difference is huge though - pups and headstock size excepted, the TB IV is still the same animal as in the sixties: a nine ply neck thru construction with maho wings. We're all trainspotters and connaisseurs here so we hear or believe to hear nuances no one else will give a damn about. While 80 % of this forum will now swoop down on me, I think the modern TB Plus pups emulate the sound of the sixties pups to quite some extent. I don't think any TBird player in the sixties or seventies would have rejected a modern TBird had an alien intelligent lifeform brought him one from the future.

I think the sound of a new Bird to an old one compares to the difference in sound between a Ric 4001 and a modern Ric 4003 (both uncapped). The voice of these basses has been retained over the decades.

Uwe

Perfectly stated.

The new birds sound great, and I bet this one with its wiring gets in that ballpark. I'll get to A/B it with Andy's (nokturnal) blackout Thunderbird here in a few weeks, so that will be telling. Unless you have bass OCD like me and are hell bent on all those subtlties, a modern one or an Orville by Gibson, Epi Japan, Elitist, etc... would do you proud. In fact, I was suprised how closely proportioned the Elitist was to the '76.

When I was a kid, I got to play my teacher's 60s Pbass ('66, IIRC) regularly, and that was a life changing experience. I would have probably chalked that thing off to an old beat up POS at first glance, and wondered what the big deal was compared to a modern Pbass had I not gotten to experience that difference first hand. That bass just sung! It would resonate your entire body, and that was before plugging it in. That's not to say all old basses are automatically gems (some can be stinkers), but with the good ones, there is some sort of magic that happens at some point, and that's what I always find myself trying to chase.

Hey - now that I think of it, I'm mentally screwed for life, and that guy has cost me a lot of money!

uwe · October 18, 2008, 01:57:37 AM

It's inherently flawed to compare a new bass to an old one. For a fair comparison, you would have to compare a 30 year old sixties Bird with a thirty year old 2008 TBird. The question with new basses is: What will they sound like when they are old? And I'm sure plenty of basses that came out in the last few years will "sing" in three decades' time. You just wait. Even my early eighties alu neck Kramer sounds different (better) than it did 25 years ago.

Uwe