Last Song by the Beatles

westen44 · November 04, 2023, 11:42:10 AM

I think Rick Beato has the best review. However, he says he is glad the song was released and I'm not so sure. I think the other two of those last songs were better. Also, I think AI may have changed John Lennon's voice to sound a little like Paul McCartney's. I was watching a video of someone who said he had experimented once with AI on a song. It changed one voice on the song to sound more like what it considered the dominant voice. In this case, Paul's voice would have been considered the dominant voice, in spite of the fact that this was John's song.

This just happened to be almost a random song which ended up as the Beatles' last song. I don't think it should be considered an official swan song. There were others that might have been better, IMO. I just got a FedEx delivery of Philip Norman's book "George Harrison: The Reluctant Beatle." Personally, I'm more interested in this book than the Beatles final song. It's supposed to be pretty good, although I have a feeling it's unnecessarily harsh. I'll know soon.

Pilgrim · November 04, 2023, 11:48:21 AM

IMO, it doesn't matter much whether John's voice is slightly different because of how it was processed. To me the important thing is that it was possible for it to BE processed. The near-miracle is that the song could be produced at all.

Basvarken · November 04, 2023, 01:07:48 PM

I like it.
It's not the best Beatles song. But who cares.

And I don't agree with Rick Beato that it sounds too modern.
Why on earth would you want it to sound a like a crappy recording? To make it sound like a genuine 1974 recording?

Dave W · November 04, 2023, 01:27:12 PM

It's not The Beatles. It's a crappy late 70s John song with other band members' voices added. Pathetic. But I guess Paul isn't rich enough and needed to make another buck. It tarnished their legacy.

Basvarken · November 04, 2023, 01:40:07 PM

It has all 4 Beatles playing on it. Not just their voices.
Don't be such a sour puss Dave

ilan · November 04, 2023, 03:19:16 PM

The song is not a masterpiece, but the official video directed by Peter Jackson is very touching. And I'm glad they didn't work with Jeff Lynn this time, he would have made this one too an ELO/Beatles mashup.

As for the AI manipulation, given how the Beatles liked to explore every new sound technology, it's only logical that they'd use it.

Dave W · November 04, 2023, 05:25:43 PM

Quote from: Basvarken on November 04, 2023, 01:40:07 PM
It has all 4 Beatles playing on it. Not just their voices.
Don't be such a sour puss Dave

But I am a sourpuss!

It's still a crappy John solo song.

westen44 · November 04, 2023, 05:47:56 PM

I get the point, but I also didn't much like Paul McCartney getting on there with slide guitar and trying to sound like George Harrison. Admittedly, they were limited to restricting what they recorded of George on the song in 1995. But I still wasn't thrilled to hear Paul doing a Paul/George guitar part. Still, nothing bothered me as much as the AI making John sound like Paul. But like I was saying, despite his good review, I do disagree with Rick Beato on whether the song should have been made. It should not have been, IMO. But that's the way I see it.

I think the real music observer guy has some pertinent things to say in this video. I found this after I posted the above paragraph.

Basvarken · November 05, 2023, 01:57:09 AM

They did not use AI to make John sound like Paul.
They used it to separate his vocal from the piano.

And it surprises me that this is being brought to us as something new that Peter Jackson invented. Because the guys who make mash-ups do this all the time.
Maybe that is what this is; a mash-up of a Lennon song with a McCartney song?

Still I like it And it seems done lovingly.

westen44 · November 05, 2023, 03:44:31 AM

I'm sure it was no one's intention for John to sound somewhat like Paul. There would have been no reason for that. But to my ears at least that seems to have been an unintentional result. This is all just a guess on my part and to take that further, whatever happened was probably the result of whatever AI did to the song. I had heard that when there are two voices, AI can change the second voice to be a little similar to what it considers the dominant voice. But if we were in a courtroom most likely what I'm saying would be labeled as hearsay. It is subjective and anecdotal, but still a sincere belief on my part. As for the people enjoying what has been done to this song, I think that's a good thing. However, I'm unfortunately not able to do that. To my ears at least, there are a million things the Beatles have done which were better than what they've done with this song. So when Dave calls it crap and a blow to their legacy, I think he is right.

Basvarken · November 05, 2023, 04:08:10 AM

Quote from: westen44 on November 05, 2023, 03:44:31 AM
I'm sure it was no one's intention for John to sound somewhat like Paul. There would have been no reason for that. But to my ears at least that seems to have been an unintentional result. This is all just a guess on my part and to take that further, whatever happened was probably the result of whatever AI did to the song. I had heard that when there are two voices, AI can change the second voice to be a little similar to what it considers the dominant voice. But if we were in a courtroom most likely what I'm saying would be labeled as hearsay. It is subjective and anecdotal, but still a sincere belief on my part. As for the people enjoying what has been done to this song, I think that's a good thing. However, I'm unfortunately not able to do that. To my ears at least, there are a million things the Beatles have done which were better than what they've done with this song. So when Dave calls it crap and a blow to their legacy, I think he is right.

Again; AI did nothing to the song itself. It was only used to separate John's voice. Nothing more. Extra voices (and instruments) you hear were done by Paul, George and Ringo.

westen44 · November 05, 2023, 04:18:58 AM

Quote from: Basvarken on November 05, 2023, 04:08:10 AM
Again; AI did nothing to the song itself. It was only used to separate John's voice. Nothing more. Extra voices (and instruments) you hear were done by Paul, George and Ringo.

Based on what has been written about this even from the beginning, it appears there is some disagreement with what AI has or has not done. At first there seemed to be a mild outcry that AI was going to be involved. Then they started walking that back saying AI wouldn't be involved. It's to the point that it's hard to know what to believe. All anyone can do at this point is to make their own conclusions. My conclusion, unless someone can prove otherwise, is that AI was more involved than they want to admit.

uwe · November 05, 2023, 06:03:14 AM

For me it's a typical latish-Lennon-career formative song idea painstakingly made to sound like The Beatles. The string arrangement especially is Beatles-by-numbers ("now what can we do to make it sound real Beatlish?"). I'm not as damning as Dave and I don't see The Beatles' legacy tarnished by a song vainly attempting to resurrect a Lennon song idea 50 years after the band's demise and 40 years after his passing, but the outcome is not something that would have passed Fab Four internal quality control in, say, 1969. As for Paul believing that he can out-Ringo Ringo on drums and out-George George on lead guitar, well that is hardly anything new, is it?

Between Lennon and Macca, I think Paul is the more consistent songwriter, with John on his solo albums very hit & miss, individual songs are great, but a lot of others seem underdeveloped. There is no Band on the Run (the album) in John's post-Beatle canon. McCartney can of course be silly and banal sometimes, but there is always a certain craftsmanship.

And I agree with Michael, Lennon's vocal track sounds weirdly un-Lennon'ish, whether that is because the original demo was just a rough sketch or because the AI messed with the tone, I dunno, but I didn't recognize Lennon's voice at first and wondered what had possessed Paul to sing a Lennon song aping the latter's voice less than successfully.

All that said, the whole exercise is worthwhile to me solely for the snippet in the official vid where Ringo plays drums with his younger self and the two Ringos from different centuries smile at each other - priceless!

And there the case must rest, I don't believe that this song will be talked about much in ten years from now nor that it will ever gain the airplay/number of clicks of even, say, Love Me Do. Nor will Free as a Bird for that matter.

What's next, AI algorithms finishing one of Picasso's unfinished last paintings and that then going round as Picasso's last painting? Je suis unimpressed.

Dave W · November 05, 2023, 08:07:05 AM

If it's not a collaboration among the four Beatles at the same time in history, then it's simply not a Beatles song. It will always be a throwaway John demo.

Dave W · November 05, 2023, 08:20:58 AM

BTW, an excellent use of AI would be to remove all of Yoko's vocal tracks, solo or with John.