Buffy Sainte-Marie

[uwe]

He doesn't give interviews anymore ever since he was accused of messaging black stereotypes.



True fact: When Sesame Street first ran in Germany in 1972 (undubbed and with the original inner-city 'brownstones & garbage cans' vintage Harlem neighborhood), our German English teacher told us we could do no better for our English than watch that show. I really liked it - and especially Big Bird! The show became such a success even in its original form that German TV decided to adapt it. German-dubbed episodes



and ones made specifically for the German market with original German language spoken by a German host team - never as good as those early US ones - would follow.

[Ken]

Fake news!  Big Bird loves everyone!

[uwe]

That's what I meant, a real Uncle Tom. All feathery in his appalling lack of
class consciousness and subservient attempts to appeal to the white masters!

[Dave W]

@uwe: Come on now, let's not get overdramatic and carried away. No one is accusing Buffy Saint- Marie of sinking into the moral depths of human degradation.

@morrow: her story is interesting, but I see it as irrelevant to Buffy Saint-Marie's situation. Buffy isn't claiming that she was misled by the Santamaria family. The birth certificate is real. Nothing about her claims adds up.

Meanwhile, she has responded. She's defiant, and she's still obfuscating, not denying. The statement by the Piapot in support of her is ludicrous, calling the accusations against her colonial and racist. For pity's sake, the people who found her out are Indians who are doing the opposite.

She could have saved face by admitting the truth and asking for forgiveness. Looks like it's too late for that now.

[lowend1]

Some people like to make up shit about themselves. In grammar school, there was a kid to used to tell us that he had the Mach 5 in his garage and that Gigantor was stored in his attic (supposedly the roof of his house slid open so G could get out). If they aren't called out for it early on, the lies get bigger, and after a time they can't go back out the way they came - so they expand and embellish until it becomes a pseudo-reality. I'd be interested in knowing if she engaged in this kind of stuff as a kid.

I have a hard time getting all twisted up about the business of "stolen land". There is significant evidence in studies that there are no truly "indigenous" people in the US anyway - that everyone's presence here is a result of migrations that can go back 30,000 years - from Eurasia (via the Bering Land Bridge) or South America on the west coast and the Nordic countries on the east. I also don't place a lot of stock in the theory that people spontaneously leapt into existence from hot springs (that's probably as likely as the Gigantor story). At the time America was colonized/settled, territory or land was acquired by, well, taking it. Sometimes you had to fight to maintain what you already had because there was no means of proving that it belonged to you. This was common among Indian tribes as well - somebody showed up, said "I'm taking this" and the battle was joined. There were no land deeds, no mortgage bankers and no Century 21 offices in the center of town. No lawyers, either - cough, cough. That is not an excuse or mean that it was right - that's just the way it was. We can't view yesterday's transgressions through the prism of today's standards.

[uwe]

There were no original indigenous people in North America, so the Asian Nomads from Siberia who walked or shipped over the Bering Land Bridge/Sea were the first humans in North America and took the not-yet-owned-by-anyone land. All ownership has to start somewhere, legal documentation or even the cultural ability to keep written records about it is irrelevant.

One look at indigenous Siberians tells you where "Indians" came from:



And they were "here" (meaning North America) first.

[Dave W]

The history of mankind has been the movement of groups or tribes into the territories occupied by other groups or tribes. Nothing new there. As for who was in the Americas first and where they came from, that's still speculative. There's some evidence that tribes from the south Pacific sailed to South America before anyone walked across a land bridge.

But that's irrelevant to this situation. Indians have certain treaty rights and statutory rights. You don't have to agree with it, but it's reality. In the US, at least, they aren't demanding their lands back. But they do want their legal rights respected. 

[uwe]

"As for who was in the Americas first and where they came from, that's still speculative. There's some evidence that tribes from the south Pacific sailed to South America before anyone walked across a land bridge."

Yes, I was aware of that, maybe they even came both from the Northern tip and the Pacific Region. What has always bothered me with the "They came from the South"-theory is that the Aztecs and Mayas at least (not the Incas, however they used strings with knots to keep a record of things) had a system of glyphs that can pass as archaic script/writing. No such thing among North American Natives. Also that South/Middle American tendency for assembling in vast civilizations (Aztecs, Mayas, Incas) was apparently never repeated in North America. It seems to me that even the earliest North Americans already had a dislike for central government!!! 

You're all Injuns at heart.

[Ken]

There were no original indigenous people in North America, so the Asian Nomads from Siberia who walked or shipped over the Bering Land Bridge/Sea were the first humans in North America and took the not-yet-owned-by-anyone land. All ownership has to start somewhere, legal documentation or even the cultural ability to keep written records about it is irrelevant.

But do they have a flag?

[gearHed289]

I was brought up believing that Bugs Moran was my grandfather's cousin. It wasn't until the internet came along that I had any reason to not believe it. Turns out Moran wasn't even Irish! (French immigrant father, Canadian mother). Some of my relatives still get twitchy when I give them the news.  At best, grandpa Heslin may have been Moran's lawyer's cousin. The point to all this is, some people may innocently think they are something they're not. But I'm certainly not saying this applies to Ms. Sainte-Marie.

[uwe]

But do they have a flag?

  Mandatory to claim something for yourself that actually belongs to everyone!



Luckily you never really went there. Candace Owens, a woman of great insight and perception, said so to Bill Maher so now I'm convinced too.

[lowend1]

All ownership has to start somewhere, legal documentation or even the cultural ability to keep written records about it is irrelevant.

"Possession is nine-tenths of the law." Or so they say, anyhow.

[Dave W]

Turns out that Buffy's younger sister took a DNA test, and she is genetically related to Buffy's son Cody (Dakota Starblanket Wolfchild). Also, turns out that Cody has been stating for several years that his mother is Indian by adoption, not by birth.

Also, her 1982 marriage certificate to Jack Nitsche, which she signed, says she was born in Stoneham, Massachusetts. That's information that she provided.

I think that settles it.

[uwe]

In that case there seems to have been, uhum, some variation in what she told/projected to people and authorities over the years. 

Once she is lifted up where she belongs, the Manitou will no doubt forgive her, being the magnanimous type.

At least she hasn’t claimed a direct DNA lineage to George Armstrong Custer, I find that consoling.

I remember Big Bird being bewildered by Cody's sudden appearance on Sesame Street, there was a
twinge of jealousy too.



Given how breastfeeding mothers really didn't occur on US screens until then, it was also very
educational, but then that was always something Sesame Street excelled at. These days, someone
would certainly be up in arms how inappropriate this is for a children's show. Progress has setbacks.

[Dave W]

In that case there seems to have been, uhum, some variation in what she told/projected to people and authorities over the years. 

Once she is lifted up where she belongs, the Manitou will no doubt forgive her, being the magnanimous type.

At least she hasn’t claimed a direct DNA lineage to George Armstrong Custer, I find that consoling.

I remember Big Bird being bewildered by Cody's sudden appearance on Sesame Street, there was a
twinge of jealousy too.



Given how breastfeeding mothers really didn't occur on US screens until then, it was also very
educational, but then that was always something Sesame Street excelled at. These days, someone
would certainly be up in arms how inappropriate this is for a children's show. Progress has setbacks.

Baby Cody was also shown naked, being bathed. Today, the authorities would be called.

For that matter, back then the Sesame Street kids went on adventures that would horrify today's helicopter parents.

Sesame Street today.