It takes a special kind of stupid...

[Rob]

Love the photo of the "authentic" headstock!

[Rob]

" This might have legs

"Dean Guitars – together with a number of other guitar makers – have already initiated an opposition proceeding before the US Patent and Trademark Office in a collective industry effort to curb Gibson's attempts to claim exclusive rights to this generic shape," he says, referring to the ES-335 design.

[Pilgrim]

Additional interesting reading, especially the dates of Gibson's trademark claims vs. the establishment of Dean's designs decades earlier...

https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/gibson-vs-dean-five-things-you-need-to-know/

[Rob]

Good read!

[BTL]

I wonder if Gibson contacted all of Dean's dealers or just those who also sell Gibson.

[westen44]

(NSFW language)

I sent this to a friend who has always been pro-Gibson who thinks this video is pretty funny.  For my part, though, I hardly know what to think.  I now find out one of my Gibson basses I bought several years ago is actually a Dean.  I thought all along that Dean on the headstock was kind of suspicious, however. 

[Rob]

I sent this to a friend who has always been pro-Gibson who thinks this video is pretty funny.  For my part, though, I hardly know what to think.  I now find out one of my Gibson basses I bought several years ago is actually a Dean.  I thought all along that Dean on the headstock was kind of suspicious, however.

Wasn't that Orville's brother?

[westen44]

Wasn't that Orville's brother?

[Dave W]

Hard to know where then phrase originated, but the closest early reference seems to be from Brendan Behan: "There's no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary."

Mark Agnesi's video proves that saying is wrong. A friend at TDPRI said it's the most alienating video he's ever seen, and I agree. It's already wiped out any goodwill the new ownership had been given. Nothing good will come of it from Gibson's standpoint.

Trademarks can be invalidated, and thanks to what happened with Fender, it's definitely possible with Gibson. In 2004, Fender was granted trademarks on the Tele, Strat and Precision body shapes, a group of about 20 smaller builders (ironically led by Stuart Spector) challenged the trademarks on the grounds that the shapes had become generic years earlier. In 2009, all three trademarks were cancelled by the Trademark Trial and Appeals Board (TTAB).

What's important about that ruling is that TTAB ruled that it was a precedent. Most of their decisions apply only to the case being considered, but since it was a precedent, that should make it much easier for Dean and its allies to win.

I'm just wondering if Gibson will respond at all to this giant pile of shit they've stepped in.

[BTL]

USPTO doesn't grant Trademark status, they just provide the database for registration.

The only way a Trademark can be established is in the market.

However, once established, it must be defended through the legal system or risk being becoming generic.

Gibson may be playing the long game here by methodically chipping away at each competitor one-by-one, but never taking it all the way to trial like they did with PRS or like FMIC did on the P/J/S/T body shapes. 

Unless a Trademark registration is canceled, and if Gibson's cease and desist efforts are successful, it's possible that some the registered designs could endure as Trademarks for Gibson.

The 335 shape seems to be on shaky ground, but it will be interesting to see if some of the others get the same level of industry pushback.

[Highlander]

Oscar Wilde's quote may have a bearing on the bad publicity stuff...

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about..."

A bit like all the excrement that has risen to the surface re music copyright and the fact that virtually nothing recorded has been "fully copywritten"... A lot of "watch this space" going on...

[Dave W]

USPTO doesn't grant Trademark status, they just provide the database for registration.

The only way a Trademark can be established is in the market.

However, once established, it must be defended through the legal system or risk being becoming generic.

Gibson may be playing the long game here by methodically chipping away at each competitor one-by-one, but never taking it all the way to trial like they did with PRS or like FMIC did on the P/J/S/T body shapes. 

Unless a Trademark registration is canceled, and if Gibson's cease and desist efforts are successful, it's possible that some the registered designs could endure as Trademarks for Gibson.

The 335 shape seems to be on shaky ground, but it will be interesting to see if some of the others get the same level of industry pushback.

Brad, I don't know where you got this information, but it's false. USPTO only registers trademarks, enforcement is up to the trademark holder, but once your application for trademark registration is approved, you are the legal owner of a registered trademark. It can be canceled by opposition appeal to TTAB, which is what happened with Fender. It can be ruled generic and invalid as a result of legal action in a federal court case. But unless that happens, it's presumed legal and valid. You can legally say that you own the registered trademark, which is what Gibson does.

Registering a trademark isn't just submitting an application. You have to undergo an approval process that involves a trademark examiner who researches it and can deny registration, make objections you have to overcome to his satisfaction, or approve it as submitted. If your registration application is granted, you own the trademark. No question about it. You don't have to establish it in the market, you only have to defend it.

[BTL]

Dave,

I'm going to back away from my previous comments...I'm not as confident as I once was in what I believed I knew.

[westen44]

It looks like the Flying-V may have a future as an aircraft. 

https://simpleflying.com/flying-v-aircraft/

[wellREDman]

It looks like the Flying-V may have a future as an aircraft. 

https://simpleflying.com/flying-v-aircraft/

they've been talking up the blended body design as the future of airliners since I was a kid in the 80s yet Boeing and Airbus still keep churning out traditional bodied new products. if it was as efficient and airworthy as they say, someone would have brought something to market by now