It takes a special kind of stupid...

[Basvarken]

In the meanwhile reverend have taken all their Volcano guitars offline.
Most likely because of the threats of a certain company...

[BTL]

No, it's a page on their website that's been there for several years now. Nothing new about that.

The problem (IMHO) is that Gibson is now claiming that any Gibson shape made by anyone else is a counterfeit. That's just not true. If it doesn't claim to be a Gibson, it's not counterfeit,

If the body shape is a source identifier, then a copy is a counterfeit.

[Dave W]

If the body shape is a source identifier, then a copy is a counterfeit.

That's an oversimplification.

That's what Gibson claimed in its lawsuit against JHS, who owns the Vintage brand. Guess what? Gibson lost. The article is worth reading b/c the decision explains why it's not a counterfeit.

A trademark owner has to show likelihood of confusion. Dean might be found to infringe on Gibson's body shape trademarks, but the Dean name on a different shape headstock is not going to confuse anyone into thinking that they're buying a Gibson. It's not counterfeiting.

As far as I'm concerned, that claim is so obnoxious and so far over-the-top that I hope Gibson's new ownership fails. It's outrageous. If I buy any more Gibsons, they will be used.

[BTL]

That's an oversimplification.

Perhaps, but it's also the legal term of art used when prosecuting disputes related to registered Trademarks.

[Dave W]

Perhaps, but it's also the legal term of art used when prosecuting disputes related to registered Trademarks.

There's no perhaps about it. It's a two paragraph summary.

Yes, it's a legal term, but there's nothing in your latest link that would apply in this case. Look at the fourth and fifth paragraphs of section D. None of Dean's instruments are remotely "likely to cause confusion" and certainly aren't "identical or substantially identical" with their clearly different brand name and headstock shape.

I accept that companies will try to maintain their trademarks, even though I'd like to see "trade dress" marks abolished. This is way beyond that. The video with Agnesi coming across like a Mafioso thug was bad enough, but accusations of trademark counterfeiting are just damned lies. To hell with them.

[westen44]

It is ludicrous to suggest that anyone could get a Dean and Gibson mixed up. 

[Dave W]

 

[BTL]

Yes, it's a legal term, but there's nothing in your latest link that would apply in this case.

If the body shape (outline) is the registered mark, then using that mark in the class of goods where it's registered is Trademark Counterfeiting.

That's the foundation of the argument, and the source of the term "authentic".

Whether or not the courts side with Gibson on all of its registered marks remains to be seen.

The issue of likelihood of confusion, mistake, or deception, is a question of fact for the jury.

It seems as though the 335 shape has faced the greatest opposition, so it will be interesting to see how things proceed with the other registered marks.

[Dave W]

If the body shape (outline) is the registered mark, then using that mark in the class of goods where it's registered is Trademark Counterfeiting.

That's the foundation of the argument, and the source of the term "authentic".

Whether or not the courts side with Gibson on all of its registered marks remains to be seen.

Again, "likely to cause confusion, to cause the mistake, or to deceive." That manual doesn't address a situation where one product has two or more separate trademarks. Dean's headstock shape and brand name will never be confused with Gibson's trademarked headstock shape, brand name, and logo.

Gibson already tried this in their suit against JHS. They lost because JHS' guitars had a different headstock with a different brand name.

Nobody knows what will happen in court, but if Dean doesn't cave, I'm confident they'll win on appeal. I also think there's a good chance that a consortium of companies can get Gibson's body shape marks cancelled.

[Dave W]

[Dave W]

Here's a short one, from Trogly of all people.

[westen44]

This one is actually somewhat long at 13 minutes.  But he may make some valid points.  Although he makes it clear he doesn't like Dean, at the same time he points out that there may be some unintended consequences of Gibson making itself less desirable while it validates Dean.

[westen44]

Listen genuine.

[gearHed289]

They just lost in Europe.

https://guitar.com/news/gibson-loses-flying-v-trademark-case-in-eu-court/?fbclid=IwAR0qcG042dV9FaM1TFUW7QzXJqN5ZquturMtGFq9EQf6vLtdcGVP5AgYqqk

[ajkula66]

They just lost in Europe.

https://guitar.com/news/gibson-loses-flying-v-trademark-case-in-eu-court/?fbclid=IwAR0qcG042dV9FaM1TFUW7QzXJqN5ZquturMtGFq9EQf6vLtdcGVP5AgYqqk

No surprise there...