New Doublecut Junior Tribute Bass update

Dave W · March 30, 2019, 05:55:44 PM

Today I called Mark Najjar, the bass guy at Chicago Music Exchange, to find out when the new bass was expected in stock. I called him b/c it was CME who convinced Gibson to do it.

He says they expect a bunch of them at the end of May, and that they will be announcing it. He also said that Gibson spec'd it just the way they asked except that Jim DeCola used a plastic pickup cover; they had asked for chrome. But when they arrive, the ones at CME will have a chrome cover. Other Gibson dealers will get the plastic cover. The price is still $999 either way.

I asked him about the pickup, apparently it's a TB-Plus with coil-splitting. Nothing radical.

slinkp · March 30, 2019, 11:21:07 PM

Thanks for the info, Dave! I am hoping one will show up somewhere in NYC that I can try out.

Quote from: Dave W on March 30, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
I asked him about the pickup, apparently it's a TB-Plus with coil-splitting. Nothing radical.

Hmm. Does the standard TB-Plus just have 2-conductor wiring?
Now I'm wondering if I could add a coil-split push-pull switch to my beloved LPB1.

Dave W · March 31, 2019, 07:56:51 AM

Quote from: slinkp on March 30, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
Thanks for the info, Dave! I am hoping one will show up somewhere in NYC that I can try out.

Hmm. Does the standard TB-Plus just have 2-conductor wiring?
Now I'm wondering if I could add a coil-split push-pull switch to my beloved LPB1.

I'm no expert on the standard TB-Plus but I think it's 2-conductor and epoxy potted which would keep you from modifying it. Somebody else will know for sure.

Chris P. · March 31, 2019, 03:43:32 PM

Thanks!!!

FrankieTbird · March 31, 2019, 05:06:12 PM

Quote from: Dave W on March 31, 2019, 07:56:51 AM
I'm no expert on the standard TB-Plus but I think it's 2-conductor and epoxy potted which would keep you from modifying it. Somebody else will know for sure.

Yes that's correct.

slinkp · March 31, 2019, 05:44:52 PM

Ah well. Thanks anyway!

uwe · April 02, 2019, 12:14:30 PM

I knew it all along. I know a TB Plus when I hear it - it was obvious to my ears.

You guys have the TB Plus relegated so much to some undesirable category in your minds, you don't even recognize it anymore if it sounds better than you thought. 90% of people's dislike to that pup is the mere fact that it (most often) comes as a plastic soap bar, not in a metal cover. Chrome is only skin-deep, free your ears!

FrankieTbird · April 02, 2019, 01:09:26 PM

Quote from: uwe on April 02, 2019, 12:14:30 PM
I knew it all along. I know a TB Plus when I hear it - it was obvious to my ears.

You guys have the TB Plus relegated so much to some undesirable category in your minds, you don't even recognize it anymore if it sounds better than you thought. 90% of people's dislike to that pup is the mere fact that it (most often) comes as a plastic soap bar, not in a metal cover. Chrome is only skin-deep, free your ears!

I was 99% certain it was just a TB-Plus, what else would it be? I started with an early-'90s T-bird, and I loved it at the time. When I got my '64, there was no comparison for me. The TB-Plus pickups have nowhere near the top end and middy growl of the old pickups. The '64 made the newer one sound like there was a wet blanket over the speakers. Of course, it's all subjective anyway. I ended up selling the '90s 'bird after it just sat there for a few years and a friend wanted it.

Basvarken · April 02, 2019, 01:27:42 PM

There are so many different versions of the TB+ it's impossible to say you don't like it. There's a flavour for each.

dadagoboi · April 02, 2019, 02:53:57 PM

Quote from: Basvarken on April 02, 2019, 01:27:42 PM
There are so many different versions of the TB+ it's impossible to say you don't like it. There's a flavour for each.

There's a flavor with alnico magnets and two miles of thin wire on short bobbins fully encased in metal top to bottom? All of those affect tone differently than thick, tall, and plastic.

I have no problem with those who like the TB+ pickup design. But there IS a difference in tone vs originals. Maybe it was 'new' in 1990 or whenever it was introduced but it's approaching 30 years, older than an original TBird pickup was at that time.

It's 'vintage', just not my (and a lot of others') vintage design preference.

Basvarken · April 02, 2019, 03:06:20 PM

There are TB+ pickups that are encased in metal casings too. For example the faux mudbucker in the SG reissue bass is a TB+.
Or the TB+ pickups that are mounted in the LP oversized bass. Those have metal casings too. And different dimensions.
Plus the TB+ has seen a rather dramatic increase of the number of windings over the years. Making them increasingly hotter.
These are just a few examples of the many different versions that all go by the name of TB+.

They're just not the sixties humbucker. I'll give you that ;-)

uwe · April 02, 2019, 03:17:49 PM

I never said it doesn't sound different. Yes, the older pups have more overdriven midrange and top end (sacrificing ooomph, everything comes at a price), which is nice, BUT IT'S NOT EVERYTHING FOR CHRISSAKES!!!

IMHO, both a 60ies and a Bicentennial T-Bird give you issues competing with a double bass drum and two guitars hammering out power chords in a heavy rock or heavy metal setting. That is where a "modern day" (= more than 30 years old

) TB Plus has real advantages, that sound with its higher, yet direct bass output doesn't waver. It's just more solid on the back end. And given how deep frequencies have taken a more prominent role in music in the last 30 years - blame disco, rap, keyboard bass, 5 string basses, the advent of CD and its ability to transport bass signals truthfully which were once simply out of reach for vinyl -, that is a characteristic which should not be underestimated.

I understand that perhaps for many finger players a TB Plus bass is not immediately audible enough (that treble and high mid "halo" it lacks compared to the 60ies signal), but that is not an issue I experience as a pick player. In contrast, my five 60ies TBirds/Embassy (let's not even talk about the Bicentennials and their sidewinders) all lack ultimate ooomph (never mind the beautiful mid range and sizzling-blurry top end & how they are fun to play). That doesn't matter that much if you send your signal through a huge rig and play very loud live (or in the studio where you can doctor your sound to an optimum), but it does if you have to go for a more subdued volume live and still want to be heard and felt. I defy anyone playing a 60ies Bird to then come up with a more substantial bass signal than from an off the rack TB Plus - at equal volume. More beautiful by itself, yes, better audible together with a miked bass drum, nope!

dadagoboi · April 02, 2019, 04:20:45 PM

Quote from: uwe on April 02, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
I never said it doesn't sound different. Yes,(sacrificing ooomph, everything comes at a price), which is nice, BUT IT'S NOT EVERYTHING FOR CHRISSAKES!!!

IMHO, both a 60ies and a Bicentennial T-Bird give you issues competing with a double bass drum and two guitars hammering out power chords in a heavy rock or heavy metal setting. That is where a "modern day" (= more than 30 years old ) TB Plus has real advantages, that sound with its higher, yet direct bass output doesn't waver. It's just more solid on the back end. And given how deep frequencies have taken a more prominent role in music in the last 30 years - blame disco, rap, keyboard bass, 5 string basses, the advent of CD and its ability to transport bass signals truthfully which were once simply out of reach for vinyl -, that is a characteristic which should not be underestimated.

I understand that perhaps for many finger players a TB Plus bass is not immediately audible enough (that treble and high mid "halo" it lacks compared to the 60ies signal), but that is not an issue I experience as a pick player. In contrast, my five 60ies TBirds/Embassy (let's not even talk about the Bicentennials and their sidewinders) all lack ultimate ooomph (never mind the beautiful mid range and sizzling-blurry top end & how they are fun to play). That doesn't matter that much if you send your signal through a huge rig and play very loud live (or in the studio where you can doctor your sound to an optimum), but it does if you have to go for a more subdued volume live and still want to be heard and felt. I defy anyone playing a 60ies Bird to then come up with a more substantial bass signal than from an off the rack TB Plus - at equal volume. More beautiful by itself, yes, better audible together with a miked bass drum, nope!

I was responding to Rob, somewhat tongue in cheek. I simply stated a preference and why the two designs inherently differ. The rest is subjective, no matter how many words you write.

FrankieTbird · April 02, 2019, 04:21:39 PM

Quote from: uwe on April 02, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
I never said it doesn't sound different. Yes, the older pups have more overdriven midrange and top end (sacrificing ooomph, everything comes at a price), which is nice, BUT IT'S NOT EVERYTHING FOR CHRISSAKES!!!

IMHO, both a 60ies and a Bicentennial T-Bird give you issues competing with a double bass drum and two guitars hammering out power chords in a heavy rock or heavy metal setting. That is where a "modern day" (= more than 30 years old ) TB Plus has real advantages, that sound with its higher, yet direct bass output doesn't waver. It's just more solid on the back end. And given how deep frequencies have taken a more prominent role in music in the last 30 years - blame disco, rap, keyboard bass, 5 string basses, the advent of CD and its ability to transport bass signals truthfully which were once simply out of reach for vinyl -, that is a characteristic which should not be underestimated.

I understand that perhaps for many finger players a TB Plus bass is not immediately audible enough (that treble and high mid "halo" it lacks compared to the 60ies signal), but that is not an issue I experience as a pick player. In contrast, my five 60ies TBirds/Embassy (let's not even talk about the Bicentennials and their sidewinders) all lack ultimate ooomph (never mind the beautiful mid range and sizzling-blurry top end & how they are fun to play). That doesn't matter that much if you send your signal through a huge rig and play very loud live (or in the studio where you can doctor your sound to an optimum), but it does if you have to go for a more subdued volume live and still want to be heard and felt. I defy anyone playing a 60ies Bird to then come up with a more substantial bass signal than from an off the rack TB Plus - at equal volume. More beautiful by itself, yes, better audible together with a miked bass drum, nope!

So the TB+ is ideal for competing with a double bass drum and two guitars hammering out power chords in a heavy rock or heavy metal setting if you have to go for a more subdued volume live and still want to be heard and felt?

uwe · April 02, 2019, 05:38:15 PM

Quote from: dadagoboi on April 02, 2019, 04:20:45 PM

I was responding to Rob, somewhat tongue in cheek. I simply stated a preference and why the two designs inherently differ. The rest is subjective, no matter how many words you write.

I know you were, I just wanted to wave my TB+ flag again a little! It's a matter of taste, right. I just don't subscribe to the - sometimes overly prevalent - cult that vintage is automatically better and that progress can only mean copying vintage sounds as closely as possible. For the record: The TB+ pups were great for their time and still sound fine today. Like all pups, they can't do everything equally well. Neither can TB+ pups.